Pokerstar Bad Beats specifically...

[CheeseMind]

Here are some bad beats suffured just tonight for me. This isn't all of them. Just when I decided to start saving some hand histories. I would like to add that I was on a REALLY bad streak. I lost 15 coin flips in a row all in. The 2 times I won that broke my streak, were the only 2 times out of 17 that I went all in being the underdog. The 15 in a row I lost I was ahead. 2 times later I was undredog in both hands, (and dominated) and won them both.

Also, I failed over 14 flush draws in a row, calling bets to the river.

Twice I decided to go all in on my draws, I hit them every time. I don't know if this is just random chance, but my gut is telling me no. Math is my favorite subject, and I love statistics. Pokerstars is WAYYY off. Don't get me wrong, I'm still up over all, but RiverStars rewarding bad play isn't just a rumor.

I want to post some of this as it comes, if you guys dont mind. So I can keep a record for myself.

PokerStars Game #2536187982: Tournament #12046713, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/09 - 16:36:31 (ET)
Table '12046713 21' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: pjabone (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: olivejai (1440 in chips)
Seat 3: CheeseMind (1440 in chips)
Seat 4: vandyfb83 (1560 in chips)
Seat 5: northylatics (1460 in chips)
Seat 6: SamuelRoth (1340 in chips)
Seat 7: AnomanderRak (1440 in chips)
Seat 8: Grandslam68 (1780 in chips)
Seat 9: greyhaze (1500 in chips) is sitting out
AnomanderRak: posts small blind 10
Grandslam68: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [Kh Ks]
greyhaze: folds
pjabone: folds
olivejai: calls 20
CheeseMind: raises 120 to 140
vandyfb83: folds
northylatics: folds
SamuelRoth: raises 1200 to 1340 and is all-in
AnomanderRak: folds
Grandslam68: folds
olivejai: folds
CheeseMind: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [6h 8s 3d]
CheeseMind said, "10 4?"
*** TURN *** [6h 8s 3d] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [6h 8s 3d 5c] [2c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CheeseMind: shows [Kh Ks] (a pair of Kings)
SamuelRoth: shows [Tc 4c] (a straight, Deuce to Six)
CheeseMind said, "omfg"
SamuelRoth collected 2730 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2730 | Rake 0
Board [6h 8s 3d 5c 2c]
Seat 1: pjabone folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: olivejai folded before Flop
Seat 3: CheeseMind showed [Kh Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: vandyfb83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: northylatics folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SamuelRoth (button) showed [Tc 4c] and won (2730) with a straight, Deuce to Six
Seat 7: AnomanderRak (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Grandslam68 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: greyhaze folded before Flop (didn't bet)

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 888

PokerStars Game #2538232181: Tournament #12047103, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/09/09 - 21:07:02 (ET)
Table '12047103 21' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: CheeseMind (1010 in chips)
Seat 2: betitallpaul (3515 in chips)
Seat 3: kitmsull (2975 in chips)
Seat 4: joeboo999 (1710 in chips)
Seat 5: ~MTePockets~ (4115 in chips)
Seat 6: big hoe (5230 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: Bog25 (2693 in chips)
Seat 8: theice99 (2312 in chips)
Seat 9: dice57 (1730 in chips)
Bog25: posts small blind 25
theice99: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [Ks Qs]
dice57: folds
CheeseMind: raises 150 to 200
betitallpaul: folds
kitmsull: folds
joeboo999: folds
~MTePockets~: calls 200
big hoe: folds
Bog25: calls 175
theice99: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [7c As 8s]
Bog25: checks
theice99: bets 350
CheeseMind: raises 460 to 810 and is all-in
~MTePockets~: folds
Bog25: folds
theice99: calls 460
*** TURN *** [7c As 8s] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [7c As 8s 4h] [4d]
CheeseMind said, " ont heomg"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
theice99: shows [6h 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
CheeseMind: shows [Ks Qs] (a pair of Fours)
CheeseMind said, "omg"
theice99 collected 2420 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2420 | Rake 0
Board [7c As 8s 4h 4d]
Seat 1: CheeseMind showed [Ks Qs] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 2: betitallpaul folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: kitmsull folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: joeboo999 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ~MTePockets~ folded on the Flop
Seat 6: big hoe (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bog25 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: theice99 (big blind) showed [6h 4s] and won (2420) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 9: dice57 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 88888888888

PokerStars Game #2539295727: Tournament #12088839, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/09/09 - 23:09:21 (ET)
Table '12088839 34' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: MsReggie (1195 in chips)
Seat 2: Very Eagle (9413 in chips)
Seat 3: sexy frenchy (190 in chips)
Seat 4: pokerdog (1435 in chips)
Seat 5: sayserv (935 in chips)
Seat 6: CheeseMind (1960 in chips)
Seat 7: phillyfa (4707 in chips)
Seat 8: Horknee (1585 in chips)
Seat 9: eight_ball8 (3080 in chips)
Very Eagle: posts small blind 25
sexy frenchy: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [As Kc]
Very Eagle said, "my kicker scared me"
pokerdog: folds
sayserv: calls 50
Very Eagle said, "then another ace came"
Very Eagle said, "and my hand was on the board"
CheeseMind: raises 200 to 250
phillyfa: folds
Horknee: folds
eight_ball8: folds
Very Eagle said, "AK sacerd me"
MsReggie: folds
Very Eagle: folds
sexy frenchy: calls 140 and is all-in
sayserv: folds
*** FLOP *** [7s 7c 3c]
CheeseMind said, "underdog win"
*** TURN *** [7s 7c 3c] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [7s 7c 3c Qd] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sexy frenchy: shows [6c 5c] (two pair, Sevens and Fives)
CheeseMind: shows [As Kc] (a pair of Sevens)
sexy frenchy collected 455 from pot
CheeseMind said, "come on...there ya go"
CheeseMind said, "eveyr time"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 455 | Rake 0
Board [7s 7c 3c Qd 5d]
Seat 1: MsReggie (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Very Eagle (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: sexy frenchy (big blind) showed [6c 5c] and won (455) with two pair, Sevens and Fives
Seat 4: pokerdog folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sayserv folded before Flop
Seat 6: CheeseMind showed [As Kc] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 7: phillyfa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Horknee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: eight_ball8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


PokerStars Game #2541552516: Tournament #12047612, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/09/10 - 05:42:28 (ET)
Table '12047612 12' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Darkfall211 (15646 in chips)
Seat 2: Keirs (720 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: LIGHTING_11 (8205 in chips)
Seat 4: Sold (7830 in chips)
Seat 5: bambino2 (840 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Sig Carnage (9585 in chips)
Seat 7: Lechienblanc (1165 in chips)
Seat 9: CheeseMind (7055 in chips)
Lechienblanc: posts small blind 75
CheeseMind: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [Jc Qh]
Darkfall211: calls 150
Keirs: folds
Sig Carnage said, "i dont bet unless i got the nuts"
LIGHTING_11: folds
Sold: folds
bambino2: folds
Sig Carnage: folds
Lechienblanc: raises 1015 to 1165 and is all-in
CheeseMind: calls 1015
Darkfall211: calls 1015
*** FLOP *** [2h Qd 8h]
CheeseMind: bets 5890 and is all-in
Darkfall211: calls 5890
*** TURN *** [2h Qd 8h] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [2h Qd 8h 4h] [5h]
CheeseMind said, "omg"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CheeseMind: shows [Jc Qh] (a flush, Queen high)
Darkfall211: shows [Ah 7d] (a flush, Ace high)
Darkfall211 collected 11780 from side pot
Lechienblanc: shows [Ac Kd] (high card Ace)
Darkfall211 collected 3495 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15275 Main pot 3495. Side pot 11780. | Rake 0
Board [2h Qd 8h 4h 5h]
Seat 1: Darkfall211 showed [Ah 7d] and won (15275) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: Keirs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: LIGHTING_11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Sold folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: bambino2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Sig Carnage (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Lechienblanc (small blind) showed [Ac Kd] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 9: CheeseMind (big blind) showed [Jc Qh] and lost with a flush, Queen high


PokerStars Game #2542016314: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/09/10 - 09:23:04 (ET)
Table 'Jupiter' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: philmypants ($11.10 in chips)
Seat 3: CheeseMind ($3.80 in chips)
Seat 4: Cinderella99 ($3.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Nistelmar ($8.85 in chips)
Seat 6: Tyscooby ($4.50 in chips)
Seat 7: SirWinsAlot1 ($3.10 in chips)
Seat 8: Tom505 ($4.50 in chips)
Seat 9: racebannon12 ($4 in chips)
CheeseMind: posts small blind $0.05
Cinderella99: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [7d 7h]
Nistelmar: raises $0.20 to $0.30
Tyscooby: folds
SirWinsAlot1: folds
Tom505: folds
racebannon12: folds
philmypants: folds
CheeseMind: calls $0.25
ghislain33 joins the table at seat #1
Cinderella99: folds
*** FLOP *** [2d 9h 7s]
CheeseMind: checks
Nistelmar: bets $0.70
CheeseMind: raises $2.80 to $3.50 and is all-in
Nistelmar: calls $2.80
*** TURN *** [2d 9h 7s] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [2d 9h 7s 9d] [Td]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CheeseMind: shows [7d 7h] (a full house, Sevens full of Nines)
Nistelmar: shows [Th Tc] (a full house, Tens full of Nines)
Nistelmar collected $7.35 from pot
CheeseMind said, "omfg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.70 | Rake $0.35
Board [2d 9h 7s 9d Td]
Seat 2: philmypants (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: CheeseMind (small blind) showed [7d 7h] and lost with a full house, Sevens full of Nines
Seat 4: Cinderella99 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Nistelmar showed [Th Tc] and won ($7.35) with a full house, Tens full of Nines

[CheeseMind]

PokerStars Game #2542143886: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/09/10 - 10:02:03 (ET)
Table 'Alcathous' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Molzar ($6.30 in chips)
Seat 3: Mattingly ($2.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Tom505 ($3.15 in chips)
Seat 5: fanas ($8 in chips)
Seat 6: CheeseMind ($2.60 in chips)
Seat 7: kerbe12 ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 8: SilverFox13 ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 9: Enty79 ($18.55 in chips)
fanas: posts small blind $0.05
CheeseMind: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CheeseMind [7d 9c]
kerbe12: calls $0.10
SilverFox13: calls $0.10
Enty79: raises $0.10 to $0.20
Molzar: folds
Mattingly: folds
Tom505: folds
fanas: calls $0.15
CheeseMind: calls $0.10
kerbe12: calls $0.10
SilverFox13: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [7h 9d 2s]
fanas: checks
CheeseMind: bets $2.40 and is all-in
kerbe12: folds
SilverFox13: folds
Enty79: calls $2.40
fanas: folds
*** TURN *** [7h 9d 2s] [2h]
*** RIVER *** [7h 9d 2s 2h] [Ac]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CheeseMind: shows [7d 9c] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
Enty79: shows [Kh Ks] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
Enty79 collected $5.55 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.80 | Rake $0.25
Board [7h 9d 2s 2h Ac]
Seat 1: Molzar folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mattingly folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Tom505 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: fanas (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: CheeseMind (big blind) showed [7d 9c] and lost with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 7: kerbe12 folded on the Flop
Seat 8: SilverFox13 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Enty79 showed [Kh Ks] and won ($5.55) with two pair, Kings and Deuces

I know my play isn't superb, I've only been playing poker 1 month.

This stuff is extremely discouraging. I seriously hit maybe 1 out of 9 flops here, and then even when I do, as you can tell I get bad beated most of the time. It's gotten so bad I dont even go all in with KK or Ak anymore. Only AA will I risk it. Anyways, criticism welcome.

andy.

[JDMcNugent7]

ya u called 1000 or so chips preflop with JQos, i think it's pretty obvious you are new. Also, you expect to win everyhand you have top pair it seems. I dn, but i think alot of here have been playing pokerstars for years and most have winning records so i really dont think the system is screwed up and rewarding only bad players.
Also, dont get discouraged, you will win money from these fish in the long run, if you become a better player yourself.
And, when u move up from those lower limits you wont be getting such strange plays happeneing to you and therefore less really strange bad beats.

[Talking Poker]

Well, here is your first problem. You are letting a few bad beats affect your play, and that's going to cost you dearly on the hands you DO win.... you won't be winning as much to help offset your losses from the bad beats.

As for the beats, yes, some of them were pretty big, but others weren't THAT bad. Remember, even when you are a 4:1 favorite, that still means you should expect to lose 20% of the time in the long run. The best hand doesn't always hold up... it's just math. Play enough hands, and you'll see all sorts of stuff.

I'm not going to go into the whole "Is online poker rigged" thing (we have threads about that though, if you feel like searching for them), but it certainly is not.

[CheeseMind]

So my JQo hand was played badly? I would like you to explain how I played each hand badly, if you would. I know I'm new and I definately have alot to learn, but I don't think you really read the hands I listed. Only 1 of the 6 beats I listed, did I go all in with top pair. Also, on the hand that I went all in with top pair, I HAD THE BEST HAND. You wouldn't call these bad beats?
If I had won even an equal amount as I lost, I wouldn't think anything wrong.
Like Talking Poker said, even 4 to 1 advantage I can still expect to lose 20 percent. But I lost 6 out of 8 times I went all in, all night long. And the only
2 times I won, I had the WORST hand going in, both times!!

This might just sound like 1 bad night, or some type of fluke. But this happens quite a bit more than you might think. I have entire sessions as bad, or worse than this one. With number of all ins lost more than won, with
percentages most of the time. I don't call that statistical. I really wish I had some way of analysing my hands, because I seriously believe so far on pokerstars I am far from statistical normal. Here's an explaination of the beats, since I don't think you read them. And if you would be so kind as to explain which hands I played like a noobie, and maybe explain how you woulda
played it differently? I could use the help. Thx.

The first hand I have KK and the BB is 20. I raise to 140. SamuelRoth raises
all in with 10-4 of clubs. The flop comes 6 8 3 5 2 giving him the straight.
Did I play this wrong JDMcNugent??

The second hand I get KQ spades and the BB is 50. I raise to 200. 2 people call. The flop comes 7c As 8s. Now I only have a nut flush draw right here, and I probably shouldn't go all in. But its been probably an hour and I hadn't hit a single flop. This is the best lookin one I've seen in a while. I go all in figuring that unless one of the 2 hit the flop hard, I could steal the pot and I have decent outs if I get called. I am also the short stack right now, and I'm needing the chips. The guy who calls me has 6h 4s. That's right, he's got an inside straight draw. The next 2 cards are 4h and 4d. Come on.

The third hand I get AKo and the BB is 50. I raise to 250. Sexy frenchy calls with 65 clubs and is all in. The flop comes 773. Right here, I predict the bad beat, and declare that the underdog will win. The turn comes Q, the river 5 giving sexy the win. This is probably my weakest all in hand of the night, altho it was only 150 chips, and it is closer to a coin flip than any other of the beats I have that night.

The 4th hand I get QJo and I'm the BB at 150. Someone raises to 1k, and I called. You can say this was a bad call, but old boy was shortstacked and needing to make a move, and the call was 1/7th of my chips. I figure if I dont hit I only lose 1/7th of my total. One person behinds me calls also. The flop comes 2h Qd 8h. I have top pair and I guess that I have the best hand atm (which I did) so I go all in to push the guy that called after me, out of the pot. He has Ah 7d. That's right, he has nothing but an overcard, and a possible flush if 2 hearts come in a row. Guess what happens. That's right, 2 hearts in a row, a 4 and 5. I played this hand badly? This is the only one where I have top pair. Probably shouldn't have made the first call, but I don't think I played this hand as badly as you insinuate.

The 5th hand I get pocket 7's with BB at .10cents. Someone raises to .30cents and I call to see the flop. The flop comes 2d 9h 7s. That's right, I hit my set. Now my opponent has TT, so he was better pre-flop, but now I have him right? He bets .70cents and I go all in. The board pairs on the turn with a 9 giving me a full. The only thing that will save him at this point is a 10. 2 outs to save him. Guess what. 10 on the river.

The last hand I have 7d 9c in the BB at .10cents. I only have to call another .10cents to see the flop so I do. The flop comes 7h 9d 2s. I know someone will call, as there has been a ton of dumb calls at this table, so I go all in. Someone has KK and calls me. Yes, he was better pre-flop, but after the flop I am better. I understand his call though having an overpair, although he should have known I wouldn't go all in with just a top pair, as I've been playing extremely conservative and haven't bet much at all this table session. Anyways, the board pairs on the turn giving him a higher 2 pair. This is the only one I would consider not a bad beat, even though I did have the best hand when the money went in.

So as you can see, every beat I named, I had the best hand going in, most cases by far, and ended up losing. Now if I had won more than lost, on these types of hands, I wouldn't be here right now talkin about it. But these were the ONLY TIMES I was confident enough to go all in the entire time I played that night. There were only 2 other times I went all in and I actually won those, and you know what's ironic? Both of those times I had the WORST when the money went all in, and those are the only 2 I won.

So when I see myself losing 6 out of 8 times going all in, where I had a better hand all 6 times when the money went in. And then the 2 times I have the worst hand are the only 2 that I win. Now I understand that poker is like that, and such. And if I won alot of all in pots that night, and I have these beats, then it would totally be within normal variance I'd think. Bad beats do happen. But on the only large pots that I decide to play? And on every single one where I am ahead when the money goes in? That doesn't seem "statistically" right.

P.S. This happens to me almost every day here. I guess it's just me. I'll start waiting for the nuts before going all in, if I'm playing these hands wrong. I am a newb, but this doesn't seem right. If it is, then I need to play more conservative than I have been. Thx for your time.

[Talking Poker]

Maybe you are an unlucky person. If so, poker probably isn't for you.

Or maybe you are experiencing what we call short term variance. Don't complain when you take bad beats 6 out of 8 times. Complain when you have taken 600 out of 800.

You won't be able to, because that won't happen. It's just math.