How do you do it..

[SirFWALGMan]

I posted on my site recently an interesting question:

Is anyone crushing the .50/1 Limit tables at Party Poker, and if so, how? It is such a fucking crap shoot. I mean 6 people in on every raised pot, and any runner-runner possability has 2-3 callers to the river. Is there a good way to win these?

I have switched to 25/NL 6-MAX for now. I had a nice night making over $100. We shall see if it can last. I know 6-MAX is variance prone. I like finding passive 6-MAX tables though, they are the best.

[Kurn]

You have just described the most profitable possible poker game. It's not a crap shoot. You have a *huge* edge on these people.

[GeoffM]

O8, I crushed. Just gotta play extremely tight, EXTREMELY tight, as in playing top 20 hands (I have my own version of top hands) only. See 15-25% of flops only. Do not waste away bets to see flops.

It can be done, but it depends on how you refer to the word "crush". Do you mean winning lots of dough, or do you simply mean to win a certain amount of BB/hour?

[Talking Poker]

I don't play these tables, but Kurn is exactly right. Given what you described, I think your question should have been, "Is it even possible to NOT crush these tables?"

[Kurn]

In his defense, there is a bigger component of variance at no-fold'em tables, but in the long run, 6 to the flop for 2 bets and 3 to the river chasing backdoors is a goldmine.

[bdawg31]

I used to go to these tables when i was running cold at higher levels - they are definitely going to be profitable if you keep your head. I don't know what your bankroll is like - but you can not be phased by the fact that you could be down $50 in 30 minutes. I think for this game - you actually need a bit more than the normal 300x bankroll, especially if you are a player that tends to get frustrated.

Figure if you have a bankroll of $300 and you take that $50 downswing in the first half hour - it might get to you. If your bankroll is $1,000 - that $50 is not going to affect you nearly as much - especially after you have some experience at this level and have proven to yourself its beatable. You can actually laugh at the suckouts - cause you know that is what is going to pay you after yoiu grind that game out for 3-4 hours.

[PShabi]

Although you can probably scratch out profits playing with an extremely tight approach, I wouldn't do it that way.

In these conditions, I open up my game and play some extra hands. Pocket pairs are pretty much playable from any position. If the pots weren't raised (except by you ) I'd even limp UTG with hands like 910s, etc.

It's postflop where you make your money. Just have to be able to take a swing.

[junYUN]

well the same reasons you all are describing are the same reasons these tables are really hard to "crush." when 6 people go to the flop with practically anything, and you're holding AA or KK it's VERY easy for just one of them to pick up a hand that beats you. i HATE playing at party... but i can still beat the game in the long run. .50/1 limit is what i play... and i have to say at party is where i make the least amount of money... just because even if you have a top starting hand... you're only a slight favorite to win the pot because there are so many people in it.

[PShabi]

Not picking on Jun in particular,

But everyone here is too results oriented. In the short term, you may get sucked out on, but it's stupid to think that you can't "crush" these games.

If you're having problems beating these games long term, you are probably folding too much. I know that's a pretty general statement, but I used to fold a little too much.

Anyone who plays limit hold 'em that has not read Small Stakes Hold 'Em is missing the boat.

[2Tone]

First of course, is don't play above your bankroll. But if you have a few more dollars to spend, get out those limits. For one, the rake is tougher to beat (). The number of "call with any two cards" players goes down considerably, which while reducing your potential win rate, also cuts down on variance/pulling your hair out, which is a trade off I'm often willing to make.

[bdawg31]

Yes, 'tight' is relative. Your 'tight' game short seated is obviously different than your tight game full ring. What you dont want to start doing is playing 'any two suited cards', calling raises and re-raises with mediocre hands preflop, etc.

This is pretty obvious - but you want to try to be the aggressor as much as possible. Those players call a lot - but they are passive. You should be able to gain control of most of the tables you play at.

[Kurn]

These are exactly the games that Small Stakes Hold'em addresses. If you haven't read it, read it. I guarantee you will find mistakes you are making.

Here's a few ideas:

1) If you hold a hand like ATs in the BB, 5 limpers & the SB completes, what do you do? If your answer is anything except raise, that's a huge error. When you have a hand that plays well in multiway pots and a lot of people have put money in the pot preflop, you should try to get as much money in the pot as possible.

2) Play more aggressively on the flop. Make sure you count all your hidden outs, including backdoor draws.

3) Bluff less on the river, value bet more on the river, call more on the river.

4) In these games, big unsuited cards go down in value, suited connectors and small-medium pairs go up in value. Adjust. If there's a limper, a raise and a call in front of you, you can call from LP with a small-medium pair.

5) sets have even bigger implied odds in these games.

Finally, post some hands where you got sucked out on, let's see if there was anything you could have done to prevent it.

[Talking Poker]

Great advice with the final suggestion, but I have a question about #3.... Are you sure? Maybe this is because you are talking about very low stakes games, but I've been experimenting with just the opposite of this recently. When heads up anyway, I find bluffing at the river can be quite profitable (assuming you've shown strength the whole way). Say the pot is laying you 8:1 or so on your bluff. Even if you get called and lose 80% of the time, you're still coming out ahead. It's also good for your image, as people will start calling you down with junk, causing your value bets to get paid off more.

Again, just something I've been experimenting with. I've kinda been looking at it the same as "call more on the river.... because of the size of the pot, it doesn't need to work all that much to be a profitable play.