Continuation Bets in NLHE.

[Aequitas58]

This discussion was started at , where one of our regular forum members posted a hand history. There was a glaring mistake on his part, and the subject of continuation bets came up in the context of no limit hold em tournaments. Hopefully, this new discussion will show varying points of view, shed some light on the topic, and more importantly, help your game.

Continuation Bets

Although the subject of continuation bets is easy to elucidate in one sentence, there seems (to me) many nuances unbeknowst to a vast majority of players. Hopefully, without spending too much time away from actually playing poker, I can cover a few of the bases.

Simply put: continuation bets are bets made on the flop, which, in essence, continue the action. You continue to be the aggressor. This is very important. If you are the aggressor pre-flop, then you have opened with a raise. Continuation bets occur when, on the flop, it's either checked to you, or you open with a bet - EVEN THOUGH YOU MISSED THE FLOP.

Example
NLHE Tournament, 100/200 blinds. The action is folded to you, as you sit in the CO position with ATs, and you raise to 600. The button folds, SB calls, and the BB folds. Two players see the flop, which brings a K 9 2. The SB checks. Now, the action is to you.

The correct play here is to bet. Yes, you missed the flop, but your opponent doesn't know that. You took the role as aggressor pre-flop (by raising), and now you are continuing the action by betting out on the flop. You again, force your opponent to make a decision. Most likely, if your opponent missed the flop as well, he will fold, simply because he won't risk more chips to a pre-flop raiser who also followed up with a bet on the flop. I will discuss how much to bet below.

How Much To Bet
In my experience, I like betting 1/2 to 2/3 the pot. Simple math will help you derive this number. While 2/3 may seem high, keep in mind that aggression (in NLHE tournaments is a good thing). I don't prefer a pot-sized bet, just because I think it's overkill ... but to each his own.

Look At The Flops
I wouldn't say to make a continuation bet EVERY TIME you see a flop. Example: You have 55, and the flop comes AK6. Someone called your pre-flop raise of 5xBB. This flop is a little too dangerous in most circumstances. I would probably save the chips and wait for a better spot.

Limit HE v. No Limit HE
The beauty of continuation betting is hard to understand while playing limit holdem. The reason being, in NL, you can easily snap off 1/2 or 2/3 the pot after showing serious aggression with a 3-5xBB PFR. This bet on the flop (1/2, 2/3) is often enough to push someone off a pot - especially when they missed. Playing L, on the other hand, betting out on the flop probably won't be enough to scare someone off, so just keep in mind that continuations usually work better in NL than L. Maybe one of our limit experts (Shabi / Chip / TP) can talk more about continuation betting in limit tournaments.

Stuff To Keep In Mind
-The fact that you are making a continuation bet means you missed the flop. If you raised preflop, then subsequently HIT the flop, then your bet is for value.
-The main goal is to win the pot with the continuation bet right there on the flop. If it was checked to you, you made a continuation bet, and then someone smooth-called, then proceed with caution.
-Usually (and I say this loosely), CBs work best in late position.
-As the # of players in the hand go down, the power of your continuation bet goes up. That is, if the hand is heads up, your continuation bet is most powerful. Why? The more players in the hand, the higher chance that someone actually hit the flop.

Hopefully, this helps. If you are serious about playing NLHE (tournaments OR ring games) you should have this in your arsenal ... ready and waiting!

GL.

[Zybomb]

Very well written -- puts my "starting info" to shame

[BrianSwa]

thank you Lou that was very very well explained.

[Talking Poker]

Great post, Lou. There is very little to add. Let me expand on this one point of yours though:

I agree 100% with your numbers. 1/2 to 2/3 is just right, although the occasional 3/4 bet is ok too. I personally like the 1/2 number best. Why? Because it only has to work 1 in 3 times for you to break even.

Example: There are 600 chip in the pot. You bet 300 (1/2) on the flop. If you take the pot down, you win 600 chips. That means you can be called twice - and we'll even assume you never improve or win the pot when your CB is called - and you'll break even. Do CBs of 1/2 the pot work better than 1 in 3 times? In my experience (especially heads up), yes, they do.

This is a great way to build your stack. Getting passive post flop every time you miss will ruin your tournament chances. A few weeks ago, Penguinfan (hey, where is that guy?) posted asking how people accumulate neough chips in tourneys to withstand the inevitable bad beats... Well, this is one key way.

Anyway, back to the 1/2 - 2/3 thing. Let's say, just for fun, you decided to always make your CBs 3/4 of the pot. Going with the same example as above:

600 chips in pot. You bet 450. When you win, you win 600. When you lose, you lose 450. That means instead of giving yourself 2:1 on your bet, you now only have about 1.3:1. big difference. will the 3/4 bet be more effective than the 1/2? Maybe, yes. Will it be more effective than the 2/3 (where you are getting 1.5:1 odds on your bet)? IMO, no.... hence me liking Lou's suggested 1/2 - 2/3 range.

Again, good post Lou.

[BlibbityBlabbity]

I have a follow up oin this. Suppose you HIT the flop (TPTK, for example). What would be your recommendation on a bet size [range] if it is checked to you in a simlar situation?

I would think the bet size needs to be fairly consistant with the instances when you are aggressive preflop and have shown down that you DID hit the flop. Otherwise players who are paying attention will notice you bet 1/2 - 2/3 when you are CBing and 3/4-pot when you hit. right??

[Talking Poker]

Absolutely. It depends on a lot of things, like chips stacks, position, whgere you are in the tourney, how strong your hand is, what the texture of the flop is...

Generally though, you want to vary your bets for the exact same situations. that will make it much more difficult for an observant to get a read on you.

[Aequitas58]

If you have a read on the player you are in the pot with, that will factor into how you proceed with the hand. Since most tournaments we're referring to take place online, you rarely sit with the same people twice.

That being said, analyze the flop. Look at chip stacks, blind levels, etc. If the flop is possibly dangerous, it'd be smarter to bet a little higher than normal (1/2 - 2/3), so to make chasers fold. Maybe a pot-sized bet. There's nothing wrong with taking down a pot on the flop. Uncontested pots are great for your stack and great for your table image.

(Sidenote: It's always good to put a player note on someone when something out of the ordinary happens... or when something catches your eye. It'll help out tremendously if you find yourself in a questionable situation with that player down the road.)

[Aequitas58]

Penguinfan is in AC, all this week.

[Aequitas58]

Nah, I just spent more time on it. Yours was on point.

[2Tone]

Great post Aeq.

One caution. As you point out, this is not nearly as effective in limit. And I'd say that online low-limit, it should be used very sparingly if at all. Know your personnel. If a player is smart enough (or in this case, timid enough) to lay down when they missed the flop, the pot is yours. But I could just as easily see somebody reasoning the middle pair with a mid-kicker is worth calling you down with. This is less likely to happen live in my experience.

Flipping it around, if I'm in late position and have missed the flop completely, if somebody fires at the pot early, I'm very likely to fold. That is, unless they have been doing so everytime and folding to re-raises ...

[Zybomb]

in response to the bet size, in general KEEP IT CONSISTANT. Im playing a good deal of 2/4 NL now. A standard raise is up to 16 bucks. So say I raise with AK and I have one caller. Flop hits xxx. I lead out with 16-20 bucks. If it hits AK2, I lead out 16 to 20 bucks. This will prevent players from getting a good read on you or your bets

The exception to this is ONCE IN A WHILE when there are 3 or more players in the pot and I hit a set. I make a small bet like 12-16 bucks (where normally itd be 32 or more with that many players in), in attempt to make it look like a weak continuation bet (this is especially effective when an Ace is on the board as well) Often players will raise and Ill smooth call the raise then check the turn. If they bet back that probably means they arent strong Ive found and are trying to buy it. If they check behind me, they will usually call a fairly big bet by mean on the river (which looks like another steal bet since they checked behind me on the turn) Unless of course it was a bluff raise.

I cant do this too often around the same group of players or they will pick up on it. Which is why I mix a good deal of check-raises (or bet on the turn if they check back), check calls, normal bets, and small bets.

[Reel Deal]

Thanks very much guys! I really appreciate the info... will print this out and read it regularly! Thanks again.

[Zybomb]

Oh yea one other thing -- you really sound like an author

[Reel Deal]

Sounds more like a recent law school grad to me.

[Talking Poker]

Oh boy... as if his head isn't big enough already.

Seriously. Have you seen his pics?

[Reel Deal]

First hand I played today I have to give credit to Aeq and this post... may have been a small pot, but it was a pot nonetheless.

***** Hand History for Game 2143033157 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Thursday, June 02, 13:33:45 EDT 2005
Table Table 36663 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: kiki_kiki ( $37.28 )
Seat 6: imajika ( $30.95 )
Seat 8: Chuckyray ( $21.14 )
Seat 5: ReelDeal07 ( $24.65 )
Seat 1: Anthrofreak ( $14.2 )
Seat 2: ToEasy4Me ( $21.75 )
Seat 3: SWJetJock ( $24.75 )
Seat 9: takabonchi ( $14.05 )
Seat 7: PilotPhil ( $33.45 )
Seat 10: skywt119 ( $14.75 )
SWJetJock posts small blind [$0.1].
kiki_kiki posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ReelDeal07 [ Qc Ah ]
ReelDeal07 raises [$0.5].
imajika folds.
PilotPhil folds.
Chuckyray folds.
takabonchi folds.
skywt119 folds.
Anthrofreak folds.
ToEasy4Me folds.
SWJetJock calls [$0.4].
kiki_kiki calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4d, 6c, 8s ]
SWJetJock checks.
kiki_kiki checks.
ReelDeal07 bets [$1].
SWJetJock folds.
kiki_kiki folds.
ReelDeal07 does not show cards.
ReelDeal07 wins $2.5

Probably should have made a larger preflop raise but it was the first hand I decided to play today so I started slowly.

[junYUN]

$1 victory
- legal "advice" fees
--------------
-$236.50

will you be paying cash or charge?

[Aequitas58]

Thanks. I'm constantly writing, either on here or somewhere else, so I guess that helps.

[Aequitas58]

Ahh, you've only begun to scratch the surface. Just keep in mind what I said about multiple players in the pot ... the higher # of players, the less effective your CB would be.

[Aequitas58]

Yea, which reminds me... We had a "Post Your Pic" thread, and very few people followed through. Aren't we still waiting on Chip's picture? If I recall correctly, the only members who posted a picture were:

Me, TP, Shabi, and Lightfungus.

COME ON PEOPLE!

[Talking Poker]

Let's see if I can dig up that old thread.... Ah, here it is: