Strangest Situation -- Your Ruling?

Zybomb · #1 03-05-11, 10:34 PM

Player A and Player B get it all on a flop of 7

8

9

. There was some raising and Player B was the last aggressor (and thus the first to show his cards at showdown)

The turn comes T

River 7

Player B turns up Q

Q

for a Queen high flush.

Player A curses up a storm, rips both cards in half and throws them in the air/at the dealer.

The cards float up in the air from being tossed and manage to fall onto the table with all 4 pieces (2 pieces of each card) face UP on the table.

Players around the table see a ripped T

and a ripped J

Player to the left of player A says, bro are you nuts? You have a straight flush!

Player B jumps up and states that hell no, his hand is dead

Is this considered a tabled hand? A dead hand?

Coincidentally all 4 pieces of the cards ended up face up. If you say this hand is tabled (and thus cards speak and a Jack high straight flush is pushed the pot) would your opinion change if one of the four pieces hand gone off the table? Or fell on the table face down?

Wes · #2 03-06-11, 07:16 AM

haha rip your cards in half, dead hand imo. also auto never allowed in this establishment again.

GTDawg · #3 03-06-11, 11:08 AM

Dead hand. He deserves to lose if only for acting like a 2yo.

Robbr25 · #4 03-06-11, 07:07 PM

Dead hand for cheating, marking the cards

I would say he loses.
Regardless I would say he should be kicked out and never allowed back.

Windbreaker · #5 03-06-11, 08:40 PM

I agree...think it's a dead hand...and the guy beside player A probably shouldn't have said anything.

2Tone · #6 03-06-11, 10:04 PM

There was some good discussion on this elsewhere - I think it has to be a dead hand. You rip up your cards, you forfeit the pot.

Zybomb · #7 03-07-11, 12:45 AM

If he didnt rip the cards but instead slammed them on the table (face up) other players can certainly say what he has, as should the dealer (cards speak once tabled)... so i guess it depends if u think his hand was tabled... if not , you certainly shouldnt say anything.

Yea I posted this on 2+2 also... mixed response...pretty close call, I really don't know..

Wes · #8 03-08-11, 06:18 AM

If playing live, just table your hand, especially if you flopped the nuts. Nothing is discovered by relieving your hand by doing so. You might be too inebriated to discover the winning hand, otherwise, it is one hand, no one is going to discover anything off of one hand.

Kurn · #9 03-08-11, 07:22 AM

I think we have to separate the two issues here. The hand and the behavior. Clearly, the offender should be kicked out of the room and banned for however long the room chooses. However, I have a problem with denying someone a pot they should win based solely on behavior.

Had the offender's actions changed slightly - say he threw his chair, swore at and threatened the dealer, made a huge scene which ended with him throwing his cards (intact) to the ceiling...had the cards fluttered down and landed face up on the table - cards speak he wins the pot. In this case if the dealer misses the straight flush it IS the responsibility of others at the table to call his attention to the error.

I don't know how ripping the cards up substantively changes the above. I will head over to 2+2 and see how the guys who regularly quote Robert's Rules of Poker weigh in on that.

Until someone makes a good case otherwise,my decision would be two-part.

1. Ship Player A the pot.
2. Show Player A the door.

Kurn · #10 03-08-11, 07:27 AM

Could you link to it or give us the thread title and when you posted? (I assume it was in the B&M Forum)

sjay2k · #11 03-08-11, 09:05 AM

Clearly dead hand (and perma-ban)

Zybomb · #12 03-08-11, 12:11 PM

Robbie Robb · #13 03-09-11, 11:02 PM

I agree with the majority here it seems - a dead hand. And yeah, a permaban. It was obvious his intention was to muck his hand in the most dramatic method possible. The least the house can do is honour his wishes.

Talking Poker · #14 03-10-11, 01:10 AM

I agree with the dead hand and show him the door crowd.

I understand that the pieces of cards happened to be end up on the table face up, but IMO (I have nothing to back this up), ripping your cards up is equal to (worse than) mucking them. IMO, in order to table a hand, both cards must be placed face up, INTACT, on the table. Thus, I do not believe this hand was tabled.

Oh, and I'd laugh at the guy as he was being escorted out too.

Akverno · #15 03-10-11, 02:08 AM

Thought about this for a while, I'd have to go with live hand (award the guy that ripped the cards the pot) and issue a ban (but probably not permanent, longest being a month).