You are the floor. Make a ruling

Zybomb · #1 09-21-10, 06:40 PM

Preflop a Player A opens, Player B calls, Player C 3-bets, Player A 4-Bets Player B folds Player C shoves and Player A calls.

The dealer burns the top card of the blue deck of cards and the next card (what would be the first flop card) is RED

You are called over... How would u proceed?

Would any specifics alter your decision (for instance if the red card was an extra (53rd) card in a otherwise normal Blue 52 card deck, if the red card was the correct missing card in a 52 card deck etc) or would it not matter

This is the 2nd hand of the dealers push as a side note.

Kurn · #2 09-21-10, 07:49 PM

No way to prove the deck isn't fouled. All hands are dead, return the bets to the players.

Zybomb · #3 09-21-10, 08:05 PM

Assuming this ruling, what do you now say to Player F who lost a pot to Player G in hand one of this dealers push, who now demands a refund for the money he lost in the pot bc a foul deck was in play

de-coder · #4 09-21-10, 10:34 PM

hey guys - I'm back (at least a little anyway).

I agree with Kurn (as usual, some things never change) that the hand is fouled. The previous hand however isn't - there's no way to prove that the previous hand had the extra card just because this one does. The guy might be pissed, but that hand played out correctly as far as anyone knows.

Kurn · #5 09-22-10, 04:42 AM

Offer him some sort of comp - free room night - 2 buffet passes - something like that. Casinos need customers right now, I'm sure most room managers have some comp leeway here.

Robbie Robb · #6 09-22-10, 07:40 PM

I agree with Kurn about the current hand.

With regards to the first hand, if the red card didn't come into play then it's pretty much a non-issue isn't it? The addition of that card (assuming it is a 53rd card) doesn't really alter the odds any as it's not a valid card. Had it come up in play then the had should be declared dead, otherwise it's as if it's not even there.

In the interests of customer service, I'd probably throw the guy some comp but that's about it.

Reel Deal · #7 09-23-10, 01:34 PM

I think the argument is that there's no way to tell for sure if that card was missing from the 1st hand the dealer dealt... in other words, the first hand may have been played with a 51 card deck.

GTDawg · #8 09-23-10, 10:18 PM

I think Kurn is right on both hands.

You can't possibly know what is wrong with the deck if there is already an improper card with it.

Talking Poker · #9 09-26-10, 01:07 AM

I agree with Kurn on both rulings.

Kurn · #10 09-26-10, 08:10 AM

FWIW, this is why good dealers are (should be) trained to count the remaining deck down during lulls in the action during a hand. If this had been done in an earlier hand, maybe the mistake never happens. It's tough multi-tasking, counting *and* paying attention to the table, but it should be part of the job.