tournament rule question

bdawg31 · #1 02-15-05, 02:37 PM

I was having a discussion about this rule question with someone and was wondering if anyone knew the answer. I vaguely remember watching the WSOP last year and a player saying that you are not allowed to announce verbally what you have in your hand while the hand is live - for example, if I go all-in with AK and someone is thinking and i say "I have AK". The player implied that you can not actually say what you have in your hand (tell the truth). I got the impression you can say things like "I am pretty strong..." or "Be careful here...." but you could not actually announce your hand - i.e. "I have AK suited" or if its after a flop you couldn't say something like "I have two pair - be careful".

I guess I wouldn't mind what people thought was the rule for a cash game as well - but I was more interested in what the rule is (if there is a rule) for a tournament.

BTW - i dont need a debate on why someone would or would not want to do this - i just want to know if its allowed or not.

PShabi · #2 02-15-05, 02:50 PM

I've heard it go both ways. In Super System, Doyle says, in a certain situation, that facing an all-in, he would throw over his hole cards to see a reaction from the opponent. I believe this to now be illegal.

At a home tourney at my place, I had an occurence like this that caused a big problem. Board comes down 9JJ, and I'm holding a 9. I bet out and get raised all in. Obviously my man has a jack and Im not gonna call. I'm thinking though, and in the process I flash my neighbor my cards and say, "I've got a straight draw" (which I didn't have by the way). My opponent gets antsy and misconstrues my flash of the cards and declaration of my hand as a call and throws down his hand face up saying, "3 jacks!"

I'm like, "What the fuck are you doing, I didn't call." I tell him I fold and he can take the pot, but he ain't getting the rest of my chips. "I thought you were an honest player, blah blah blah." Anyway, he got pissed and left and it took a while to get him back.

Just an idea of what problems doing this can cause. Still don't have a hard rule though!

omahilo · #3 02-15-05, 04:30 PM

this happened last night during the 1993 WSOP (if anyone watched it on ESPN classic).

Matour Maloubi raises with JJ preflop and BB has AQ and calls... the flop comes AKx... BB puts Maloubi all in and he thinks... then he flips over his hand but still didnt make a decision...

He was short stacked so he called and BB had the AQ and that was that.

Talking Poker · #4 02-15-05, 05:06 PM

....it depends.

I've played in games/tourneys where showing (let alone announcing) your hand is allowed and also in games/tourneys where it's not.

On "the boat" here (this seems to be the most common rule, in my experience), if you expose your hand and there is any action left behind you (including someone needing to throw in just a few more chips becuase they bet 50,000 and you pushed in for 50,400, thinking you were calling because you had the smaller stack), your hand is dead. No questions asked. If there is no action left behind you, then you can turn both your cards up and try to get a read on your opponents reaction if you like. It doesn't happen often, but it is allowed.

In the big NL cash game I play here, this happens regularly.... people showing or asking to see one card when they have a big decision to make. In heads up play, this is perfectly fine with everyone.

bdawg31 · #5 02-15-05, 05:56 PM

sounds like the best thing to do is either ask and find out or not do it at all..... i guess there is a little more flexibility in cash games - especially home cash games - although that flexibility of the rules is what leads to arguments and misunderstandings.

BlibbityBlabbity · #6 02-15-05, 07:11 PM

I think telling someone what you have while THEY are making the decision is a completely different question from flipping up your cards after someone goes all in and YOU are deciding whether to call.

In the first case I don't think the WSOP tourney rules let you give "honest" info about your hand when you are in the hand. At least that was what was alluded to in the 2004 WSOP broadcast.

The second case, they have already made their call by going in. The only other action that can happen is in your hands so as long as you don't accidently get your cards mucked in the process you should be able to flip them up to try to get a tell. BTW, how (officially) does the dealer know when you flip your cards up, tossing them toward the middle, that you are mucking them face up versus flipping them up as discussed here? I saw one of those old WSOP shows on ESPN classic and I read it as a fold face up and then they started to talk about him trying to get a tell.

Are the "official" rule online somewhere?

The_Gunt · #7 02-16-05, 02:20 AM

You can find the rules here:

These seem to fit the question the best.

68. Verbally disclosing the contents of your hand or advising a player how to play a hand may result in a penalty, in Harrah’s discretion.

66. A player who exposes his or her cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his or her hand killed.

65. Players are obligated to protect the other players in the tournament at all times. Discussing cards discarded or hand possibilities is not allowed.

38. Penalties: A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, if a card(s) goes off the table, if soft-play occurs, or similar incidents take place. Penalties WILL be invoked in cases of abuse, disruptive behavior, or similar incidents. All penalties will be issued in Harrah’s sole discretion.

Talking Poker · #8 02-16-05, 11:37 PM

At the 2004 WSOP, I saw - with my own two eyes - a woman show here hand before the action was over. I forget the exact circumstances, but I think she was screwed up about who was all in and what action was left behind her. This put the THIRD player (the guy behind here) in quite a bind, and he ended up folding a hand that he probably would have called with whe he saw her hand (she had KK or something like that). Naturally, the first guy wasn't happy at all about all this.

In any case, the floor was called over to make a decision. Her hand was still live, but she was given a 10 minute penalty immediately afterwards.

Zybomb · #9 02-22-05, 06:38 PM

From what I understand, at the WSOP if you reveal information about your hand, you CAN be penalized at the directors discretion. I dont believe its mandatory, but just like folding out of turn, it's looked down upon regardless. Im pretty sure this goes for both if you bet and an opponent is considering action, or if an opponent has bet and you are considering action and are trying to get a read. The penalty would probably vary based on the circumstances, but at the WSOP they do have the option of enforcing it should this occur.