Tourney strategy

Windbreaker · #1 02-12-05, 02:41 AM

How do you go abouts winning a NL tourney? I'm gonna be playing a big tourney tomorrow with about 45 people are so....and basically winner takes all. Just sit tight during the early stages...then start making a few steals when the blinds go up? Should I be taking more risk than normal, knowing that it's winner takes all?

Any advice? Thanks.

omahilo · #2 02-12-05, 03:05 AM

since its winner takes all... your going to have to make some moves you wouldnt other wise. I would say play tight but not so tight you end up blinding off and if you enter a pot, I would play my hand aggressively (more than normal) so you can win whatever pots you enter more times than not.

Eman885 · #3 02-14-05, 04:48 PM

Good Luck. I don't really consider 45 people a big no-limit tournament, but if winner takes all u have to play aggressively. Don't be afraid to raise and reraise. With this tornament format u have to play like Gus Hansen. Hopefully you will pick up the cards and pots to win the tourney and once again goodluck.

Aequitas58 · #4 02-14-05, 05:08 PM

Why do you have to play like Gus Hanson? Being loose aggressive is only one "tournament strategy." I would imagine in a home game where there are a lot of loose players, it would be better to tighten up, especially in the beginning rounds.

ChipFish · #5 02-14-05, 05:45 PM

If it's a "homegame" type of tourney, you will get the chance to limp in to hands with 6-8 callers...
Suited connectors, Any suited Ace, and any pocketpair are your friends in this situation.
As well as the usual "top hands",

tazmision89 · #6 02-14-05, 08:36 PM

I just played 2 free roll tourneys this past weekend. Saturday there were 151 players (I placed 35th) and Sunday there were 136 players (I placed 10th). How was I able to do very well in back to back tournaments? Easily, basic stagerdy in the begining of the tournament always helps out. Play tight and when you make your move, make it aggressively. When your chips stack up, then start making your move on pots. Aim for the short stacks. I rather have their chips then someone else.

But just keep it basic up front and change up in the later rounds.

omahilo · #7 02-14-05, 08:58 PM

yeah thats a basic plan in every tourney... play tight, play your big hands aggressively, etc...

This is why Phil Hellmuth and other pros dont even show up during the early stages, they rather not get involved in a big pot early on.

The_Gunt · #8 02-15-05, 12:01 PM

Take my comments with a grain of salt I am good at tournaments but not great. Maybe some of the other comments will help you more but these are just some general thoughts from my one year of playing.

One of the most important thing is to have patience in the middle to later rounds. If you are playing tight and there are a lot of players you will not play many hands. You will see lots of chips flying around and you might try push it by playing cards that are marginal. Think about maximizing your time at the table hang in as long as you can waiting for that premium hand. The chip leaders will be watching every all in hoping for knock outs. If you can wait them out you might be able to wear them down and get them to call your all in when you hit a good starting hand.

It does pay early on when the blinds are low to play a little loser but avoid the early knock out. This early loose play will give you an image that might pay off in later rounds. I find myself limping in or calling small bets and folding after the flop. Usually you will get a few flops that pay and that offsets the small losses. Avoid all ins early unless you really don't want to stick around or the buy in is low and side games will be started. If you have AA maybe you can call the guy who is going all in with KK but do you really want to take that chance? Also make sure you leave enough time to play the whole game. If you are playing at a home game you probably are setting aside enough time but, I have fallen into the trap of trying to squeeze in a quick game online. Next thing I know it's 1AM and I need to go to bed so I start playing looser than I should.

If you do make it to the final table don't get too upset if you lose a big hand, unless of course you went all in. If you have a short stack but the blinds aren't too high slow down take some deep breaths and wait for the right cards. When I first started playing tournaments I would freak if I lost a big hand towards the end and start playing all in on mediocre hands. If you pick the right cards and double up a couple times you can still have a shot at the money. Just think about the time you have invested up to that point and don't piss away all that work by playing junk.

When the blinds are climbing and you are holding a smaller stack you need to hold on as long as you can. If you have a mediocre set of starting cards in early position and you can still play a couple blinds you should fold. Hold your load as long as you can but make it pay when you fire the money shot. If you are in late position or on the button and you have a mediocre hand with few or no callers and no bettors you can play more aggressive. As always position will play a big part in your play.

Other things you may consider if you are playing a home game and there is alcohol flowing don't drink. In fact I make it a point to bring lots of beer with me and drink only one and end up giving away the rest. But then I am the type of guy who can drink only one, for others this may be too much temptation.

If anyone has issues with my comments please reply, don't want to give bad advice.

Oh yeah, have fun!

Talking Poker · #9 02-15-05, 12:42 PM

I have issues with this:

I'm not sure if you meant to say "...but with KK..." or not, but either way, I'm never going to fold AA preflop (period), and in order for me to get off KK preflop, I would have to be certain I'm up against AA... and I don't know that I'm a good enough player to be able to do that yet. In fact, I can't imagine many players in the world capable of getting off KK preflop.

My point here is, I will happily push my chips into the middle preflop with AA and KK every time.

Aequitas58 · #10 02-15-05, 01:49 PM

KK Preflop! Check my blog for a post about a SnG I played this week. First hand, I get KK... me and two other players go all-in ... look what they had.

LOL. FISH!

The_Gunt · #11 02-15-05, 02:24 PM

Yes you're right I didn't chose my words properly thanks for correcting me I appreciate the comments. This should be AA or KK but after that you have a serious drop off. What about AKs? I think I might even call with that but it would be tough. If you look at Aequitas58 blog you will see exactly what I am talking about. First hand people will go all in and they have garbage hands but what if the AQ hits the straight. You went all in on the first hand even with AA/KK and now you are out already. If I am just playing a SNG and it's for some low buy in amount that's fine, hopefully the cards break even over the next couple SNGs. If I have to travel 2 hours to the card club wait 3 hours for the tournament to start and buy in at $200-$400 do I want to go all in on the first hand? AA or KK yeah that is the right call but there is still a chance I will be packing my bags for that 2 hour trip home. With anything else why not wait for the idiots to push all in when you have the nut flush or slow play a FH. Also if you are playing a home game with 45 of your buddies do you want to be the first guy out sitting on the sidelines waiting for the next game to start. I'm sure others have more experience in this situation and I do realize I might be taking into account other outside consideration than just straight up card values.

Aequitas58 · #12 02-15-05, 04:46 PM

Your travel time should have nothing to do with "playing the best poker you can." AA can very easily lose - but are you seriously trying to tell me that you're not willing to get your money in, while you have the odds?

Your bets and "moves" shouldn't be determined by travel time. Say you win a seat at the next WSOP... say on the first hand, you have AA and 4 people go all-in before you can act. You wouldn't call? You have the odds in your favor to start off a HUGE favorite.

This is an easy call...

E v e r y S i n g l e T i m e

As far as the idiots who push when you have the nuts, you have to consider:

(1) You *might not* get a chance to play the nuts. That is, the cards don't always fall your way. Tournaments are very short compared to what I consider a "streak of cards." You might hit great cards and easily cruise into the final table... or, you might never win a pot!

(2) Even when you get the nuts, where's the guarantee that you'll get paid off? Like you, I also have no problem playing poker when my win percentage is at 100%, but I can't wait to have that 100% throughout the course of the tournament. In most cases, tournament life is dependant on hitting a fair share of coinflips, and even those put you at 50%.

My $.02

The_Gunt · #13 02-16-05, 12:35 AM

Yes I agree AA/KK are strong and sufficient to call all ins early.

Beyond that I think it is not worth the chance you take in busting out so early. Maybe QQ? Maybe AKs? How about JJ-99? I tend to fold almost everything other than AA/KK. Maybe in time I will learn better?!

You are right that you might not always get play on strong hands but if you are a better player then you should be able to out play the other guys over the long haul.

As far as other considerations I do take into account the amount of time I have invested when considering early all ins. Maybe this is a weakness or something you can use against other players during your next tournament play. The way I look at it do I want to spend 6 hours of my time and $200-$400 on a coin flip?

Playing a lot of hands early when you have no information on the other players can be risky. I'm sure you would agree with the exception of those starting hands that have a clear advantage.

BlibbityBlabbity · #14 02-16-05, 01:40 AM

NO call here with 4 all ins before me...NO WAY! Heads up maybe, but with that many all with the same chip stacks (first hand) you are likely to be beat unless you happen to improve. I would fold AA (for the first time, BTW as I have never done it yet) in that spot.

We have been here before in another thread but my feelings on this are....

--In a cash game you would push in almost all spots pre-flop if you can get your chips in with the best hand. If you get drawn out on you know you made the right play and you buy more chips.

--In a tourney, where it IS NOT only about having the best statistical hand, but also about survival, there do arise certain spots where you could fold "in the dark" (the 4 all in's first hand WSOP for example).

--Lets assume those 4 players are not obviously intoxicated, blind, wearing a clown suit, etc. ..... You are likely up against KK, QQ, maybe AK, JJ. Most likely 2-3 PP hands. While AA is a big favorite against one lower pocket pair, odds become likely that you will have to improve to win the hand.

to paraphrase a quote I have heard many times....

"You can't win the tourney on the first hand, but you can lose it. "

These are just my thoughts, I know only a few agree.