General Tourney Strategy

[stormswa]

A lot of this might be general stuff or stuff you already know but its my post so deal with it. I have always been a better tournament player then a cash game player, I actually think I'm a pretty poor cash game player because I seem to tilt a lot when I'm in a cash game when I take a bad beat but I seem to not in a tournament. So I came up with a kinda list of how to play solid tournament poker and here are my basic rules when I play.

1. Don't over play you hands - I see nothing at wrong seeing flop early on in a tournament with speculative hands like suited connectors BUT don't over play those hands. If you get to see a cheap flop with something like 7 8 do not go broke on that hand. Realize that even if you flop 2 pair on a flop like A 7 8 you do not have a lock or a monster hand. A lot of cards can come before showdown that can counterfeit your hand, a lot of cards can also come out that can put you as a big favorite to a big underdog.

2. this kinda links into #1 here, do not play giant pots early in a tournament, there is absolutely no reason to put all your chips in the middle. Play small pots and chip up, there is no reason to put your tourney life on the line in the 1st hour. Of course this is assuming you don't flop a monster, of course if you flop a monster you want to get as many chips in the middle as possible. This is more like you have K Q on a Q high board, of course if you flop Q high you are going to bet but don't over commit yourself. Don't go broke on top pair.

3. Don't get crazy against players that can bust you. This is pretty obvious but some people seem to do it all the time. If you are 2nd in chips at the table there is no reason to get involved with the only one at the table that can bust you. Instead pick on the small stacks that are trying to chip up or trying to get to the money.

4. Don't let yourself get blinded to less the 10BB, I see this all the time and I laugh all the time. If you are getting to 10BB kids its time to gamble, after all we are here to win the tournament right? why the hell would you just want to barley make the money? I mean say you join a $10 buy in and the bubble is like at 18 and there is 28 left, why the heck would you let yourself get blinded down into place 18 with like 3BB left? Makes no sense at all to me to sit in a tourney for 3 hours to make five dollars in profit. If you see yourself getting low then its time for you to take some gambles.

5. be the raiser not the caller - Raising with A T is a lot better then calling with it. This is another one people do not understand, I see a lot when a guy in EP raises and some guy just calls with hands like AT. This is not a hand you want to be calling with, this is a hand you want to raise in position.

6. don't let someone walk all over your blinds- this happens in every tourney ever played. Guy on the button raises with hands like K 9 which is the correct thing to do because that hand is favored over random blind hands. Eventually though you need to play back at him or push it all in, this is more true if you are getting short stacked. If blinds are like 1k/2k and guy on button raises to 6k and you are sitting around 10BB at 20k it might be time for you to play back at him. This is of course if this guy has been stealing your blinds over and over and you have folded to him. This is especially true if you are getting close to the bubble. The guy will think "wow this guy has just put all his chips in this close to the bubble he must have a monster". Also think of it like this there is 3k in middle from blinds maybe 100 ante so that's another 1k and he raises to 6k so that puts 10k in the middle before the flop so if you win you go from a 20k stack to a 30k stack, that's a massive increase!!




think thats about it for right now, I dont know if this will help anyone but thought I would post it just in case. PLEASE feel free to add any or if you dont agree with anyone please post why because I think alot are pretty basic. I do think all these are important for any tournament you join, I might add more later as they come to mind.

[eejit101]

i dont agree with most of that, sorry.

ill play huge pots early on in tournies, for the simple reason that if i can get it in 55%ish ahead all in, ill take it, being able to bully at earlier stages is alot easier than chipping up as you put it. Ill happily take one or two risks early if it means i have a very secure position in relation to the table.

78s on a A78 flop?? call me crazy but ill fast play the flop and decide on future streets what to do depending ont he action i get.

If i am 2nd at the table, and i get a very good hand ill take on the table leader, for the simple reason that in the 3 tourney wins ive had, ive done this in every one. 10 left at the para win, i raced the chip leader after pushing all in for 600k to his 900k ish with 5 20k limpers int he pot with AA, he UTG limped with AKos and called. I won, and i went on the dominate the table with my 4-1 chip lead over 2nd. Thats a limited situation, obviously i wont go mad against him, but ill not fold good hands to him just because he can take me out, i want his chips too.

In relation to your 18 cash with 28 left, and having 10x BB, ill push/fold here, but if i get shit for 3 orbits and im down to 6x BB, i will make a steal with suited conns or 1 gappers, any A or K7+ish, Q9+ e.t.c While i dont like getting blinded off, limping into the money after 3 hours of p[laying feels better than bubbling.

calling with AT aint that bad, depends on reads and position and lots of other things.

And BB reraising to button steals is great. Ill mix it up from there to take down a preflop pot, but button hands do raise with good hands sometimes, so dont do it alot.

[Kurn]

A couple of quick thoughts

Point #1: I agree if you're in position and there are other limpers. Up fron raise/fold with small/medium suited coneectors. Why? They don't have big implied odds in unraised pots. In a raised pot, where you raise preflop, they do.

Point #2: I'm halfway between on this one. In a long major B&M tourney, I'd agree, the the faster the blind levels, the more I'm willing to gamble early.

Point #4: I'll go farther. I tend to go pushbot at 12-15 big blinds, and Snyder says in a faster tourney you should at 20. BTW, if you haven't read Snyder's book "The Poker Tournament Formula" you should.

Back to work.

[stormswa]

in red

[ChipFish]

[Zybomb]

Um Brian... please tell me you aren't advocating pot control with 87 on a A87 board because villain might outdraw you on the later streets?

[stormswa]

I didn't explain it too well and came out wrong, I just don't want to see you put all your chips in during level 1 or 2 with a weak 2 pair. I honestly don't know how to word it that would make sense. Of course you are betting the flop but don't want to see anyone go broke on first couple levels on a weak 2 pair. I guess what im trying to say is just don't over-commit yourself. I honestly do not want to get it all in in a multi way pot with bottom 2. I honestly do not like being all in for my tourney life at all, of course this is assuming I don't have a monster and I don't consider bottom 2 a monster.

[Talking Poker]

Truly words of a wisdom from a passive "hopefully I can squeak into the money" type of player.


{
I'm not saying that your strategy is HORRIBLE or anything like that, Brian.. But reading through it, it sounds an awful lot like the very basic old school, tight/passive strategy that is better suited for big multi-day B&M toruenys, and not online tourneys or anything with a somewhat aggressive blind structure. If I didn't know better (and I don't), I'd say you picked up an old Sklansky book (something like "Tourney Hold'Em for Beginners," if such a book exists), picked out a few points to change into your own words, and then gave some not so good examples to go with them. This strategy is fine, especially for beginners, but if you look at who is taking down tourneys these days - both live and online - it is NOT the players who play like this.

And like I said, I certainly don't disagree with everything you wrote. I mean, yeah, blinding off is bad and raising is better than calling. Glad to see you've finally put that together!
}

[stormswa]

I have never gotten any books on tournament strategy's but Im happy to know that what I wrote is in them. Most good tourney players do play tight in early stages of tournaments and most don't like to coin flip in beginning stages. My tournament results speak for themselves both live and online so I do not feel I need to "prove" anything to you sir. All money I have ever lost has been on cash games, which I admit that im terrible at.

I dont think any of my points indicate a weak/tight approach to the game, if by saying I dont want to put my tourney life on the line in a coin flip in early stages makes me weak/tight then so be it but trust me in saying that I'm not alone here. If me saying that I dont want to overplay 2 weak pair and be out of the tourney makes me weak/tight then again im not alone again.

as for squeaking into the money, no dont think I ever said that, I actully think I said the opposite. I usually dont just squeak into the money ever, the real money isnt until the final table. BUT I would much rather go up against small stacks where if I happen to lose the coinflip or race im not out of the tourney instead of going up against the only guy in tourney that can bust me. This is a very very basic concept that I hope you understand, if you dont PM me and I could give you a link or send you to cardrunners tourney video page and you can just pick a video to download because im sure they say it in pretty much any one.

Like I said most of my concepts I put up here are very basic and wouldnt help a experienced tournament player because they already know them, this was more for players that are new to tourneys.

[bdawg31]

I used to play the basic by-the-book strategy and early on (like 3-4 years ago) it worked pretty well in tourneys. But, over the last year - and TP can attest to this - i found myself getting low-cashes or being semi-short-stacked late in a tourney and losing a coinflip. Over and over - this is for like the last year now. Even in my local games i play for basic fun stakes, i used to always cash, now i finish late but dont win any money.

I thought (and still believe) that part of my problem was a weak middle game, but i found that almost always half-way through a tourney - i was always at the avg stack or just below it. well, 90% of the time. the other 10% i was low or out. Rarely, if ever, a big stack.

Then i noticed how a lot of accomplished tourney players (and Hersh mentioned this in one of his backing strings) either finish early or accumulate chips. So I am now thinking that i do need to gamble more, be a little more unorthodox early on. Take that 7,8 hand you mentioned. Before i would have thought like you say - dont get tied up in a mess with that hand early on. Wait for a better spot. But, the problem i am finding is that sometimes the better spot does not come along quick enough. Now, I think if i can get all my chips in on that flop vs someone with an ace-big-kicker or a str8/flush draw - so be it. Double up early - then i can do some real playing and splashing around, or be done with it and go see a movie (or fire up another tourney).

I have just started playing around with this - at some very low stakes and at a home tourney - so its early on. But, this has lead to me getting chips early in the tournament - which has allowed me to play a completely different middle game.

I dont know - there are so many different types of tournament strategies. just watching on television - you can see all kinds of different strategies get deep. But, think about how many times you have seen people kind of fumble and stumble their way deep getting lucky. I am thinking that maybe sometimes you have to force that luck. Play draws super-aggressive. If they fold, you take a small pot. If they call - okay - lets see if we can get lucky and double up early.

[Talking Poker]

Brian - Care to share those tourney results of yours and let them "speak for themselves?" I for one would love to see them. I know you didn't used to keep records, so I'm glad to see you've changed your tune on that.

And wow - your new and improved tourney strategy has come SO FAR from . I'm so proud of our little Brian. He's all growed up!

And thank you so much for the offer to teach me basic beginning tournament poker tips via PM. I really do appreciate that. pshabi's 6 year old made me the same offer first though, so I will probably end up taking him up on it.


{Am I being a dick right now? Maybe. Meh.}


In all seriousness, please don't get me wrong, Brian - I'm glad you started this thread. I'm sure there are indeed people who are benefitting from it, and that's great.

[stormswa]

in red.

[PShabi]

LOLMFAO, he's 4.

[Talking Poker]

Wow. Based on his poker lingo and his tourney ROI, I figured him for at least 6!

[PShabi]

I sent him to Lederer's Poker Camp as soon as he was potty trained.

[eejit101]

rofl @ all that.

And chip, i meant 88, god knows why i typed AA.