My Arguments for Barry Bonds

[GeoffM]

So, with the media all opposed, I have thought of ways in which to support this guy. The media hates him and I am not surprised at the lashing he is taking for this issue.

First, and it is true, he is playing against pitchers that are also juiced up. In the days of Ruth and Maris guys would be throwing 70-90 MPH fastballs, today they are in the mid 90s, often throwing 3 or four other pitches to complement their blazing fastballs.

Second, the guy still has to hit a round ball with a piece of wood over 350 feet. I don't care how big you are, hitting the ball squarely alone is tough to do, but to get enough air under it to hit it out, incredible.

Third, the guy gets walked a million times a year. When he does see a good pitch, it's gone. This supports the above argument that he almost always hits a ball squarely.

Fourth, in the days of Ruth and Maris, pitchers also pitched a hell of a lot more innings, leading to fatigue. Maris and Ruth no doubt saw a lot more BP pitches in their day then Bonds will ever see nowadays.

Bottom line, if you are going to put an asterisk beside Barry Bonds in the record books, might as well also put an asterisk beside each and every player that broke any record in the last 5-7 years. This whole thing could have been going on with Ruth and Maris for all we know, because as long as they had the avenue to get it, they weren't being tested so how would we ever know.

Sports has became very dumb in my view. They are trying to catch cheaters, but cheaters are always going to be 2 steps ahead of them. They catch the hGH and how much you guys want to bet that is the old stuff, like 2 or 3 years ago. Bonds is likely still on roids and even with the MLB testing, won't be caught because he has moved on to a new super drug that can't be detected. Maybe it is time for sports to say "You want to use steroids, have fun when you need Viagra the rest of your life". Seriously, sports spends so much trying to stop people from juicing up but I got to say that they are never going to catch up. Thoughts? Please be kind if you disagree, which I am sure most of you do, I'm just trying to argue the other side of the picture.

[Penguinfan]

Sorry man, Bonds openly cheated, CHEATED and he put the asterisk there, nobody else. You can't say that people back then COULD have been cheating, you have no evidence to accuse them with, the evidence against Bonds is clear and present. I agree the media is against him, something else he brought on himslef. I wouldn't worry if your a Bonds fan though, MLB and the spineless Bud Selig will do nothing. In my opinion this makes the HR record useless now, completely useless. I would feel the same way if it were Sammy Sosa though, who knows how many of those blasts came with a corked bat? Again with him we have proof.

[BlackCoffee]

Who cares about records. All records are useless. North America is waaaay to big about records. Gretzky holds the record for 92 goals in a season. Who cares if anyone ever breaks it. People make a big deal about nothing. It about wins and championships and Bonds still has no ring.

[Penguinfan]

You would be correct to a certain extent. It is all measured by championships, yes that's true, but everything else has value as well. I am a gigantic Lemieux fan, but those 92 goals Gretzky put up is still one of the most impressive feats in sports. Every year ONE team get to win a championship in any sport, we need another reason to watch the games and individual accomplishments count. Why would certain players be fan favorites if all that mattered were championships, you would just be a fan of a team and not a certan player. The records matter, and for that reason they should be respected, not obtained by cheating, that is what would render them useless.

[TajaUk]

I am a massive Giants fan. I have watched them lots and lots of times whenever I got back to San Fran.

The main reason I go back to watch them is Bonds. I dont give two hoots about anything else as long as he entertains me.

North American "sports" aint really sports anyway, its all about TV schedules , entertinment and making wedge.

They could stop all the drug taking in Baseball very easily, just tell the players to take mandatory drug tests before games, but NO they might upset the players union and they might go on strike! Virtually no other country would tolerate this player power, America has totally lost the plot and has let this situation where cheats can prosper and win! *until recently the US atheltics team were famous for covering up positive tests, but the TV and public didnt care they wanted to see winners. Unless the public demand the sports clean and make the players do something, or they let the current situation continue and people accept cheats prosper in baseball.


If you want to see a fair sports game then go watch the local soccer games in the park.

[jillaj]

Barry is a putz. Does he really think the public is as dumb as he is? He looks roided out and has been since he found his power stroke.

[BlackCoffee]

Even without cheating, I already render records useless unless they have to do with wins and losses. I agree with you that there needs to be individuality in sports. You can be a fan of a player because of his great skill and talent or his personality not because of his 'numbers'. Cubs fans know that Sosa hits the most useless home runs in the world. He may get 60 in a season but 40 of them are when the games are 10-0. Gretzky's 92 goals isn't as impressive as you think. They were winning games 8-2 and the team was amazing. Hull and Lemieux scored 86 on lesser teams. And Selanne scoring 76 as a rookie for a crap Winnipeg team was just sick.

The US has gone stats crazy. Last year, I was watching the Giants/Dodgers/Astros pennant/wildcard races and they kept showing Ichiro trying break a record for a dead last-place team. Ridiculous.

Stats are for fantasy geeks only

[omahilo]

Bonds also DENIED using steroids after saying that stuff to the grand jury that he had to know was going to come out eventually.

[parskynhutch]

How could steroids not have had an impact on his hitting? He hits 73 dingers at age 37? He's constantly hitting 45+ since?

[Kidd7138]

"First, and it is true, he is playing against pitchers that are also juiced up. In the days of Ruth and Maris guys would be throwing 70-90 MPH fastballs, today they are in the mid 90s, often throwing 3 or four other pitches to complement their blazing fastballs."

I think you're seriously overstating the difference in pitchers repertoire's from the early days of baseball to today. Pitchers weren't throwing 75 mph heaters back in the day, and steroids is not the kind of thing that would magically add 5-10 mph on somebody's fastball, pitchers use them more for injury recovery and to delay the aging process which a pitcher's arm goes through. Offensive feats from guys like Maris in the 60's and surrounding time periods are impressive because that was a period absolutely dominated by pitching.

"Cubs fans know that Sosa hits the most useless home runs in the world. He may get 60 in a season but 40 of them are when the games are 10-0."

I really hope you don't actually believe that Sammy Sosa hit 2/3 of his home runs in largely meaningless situations.

[Chutups]

Bonds already openly admitted to useing steroids, even though he says he didn't know. Why would you need to defend him when he's already admitted he's used steroids.

I think Bonds is a great player, but if he really did used sterods knowingly he really needs to be punished. It's unfair to those in the game who don't cheat.

Baseball is getting a lot of heat from the media and fans, I have a feeling that Baseball is going to get more strict with this whole sterod issue.

[TajaUk]

You will NEVER clean up baseball until the players dont hold all the Aces! They themselves wont allow random drug tests. Blame all the players for hiding exactly how many of them do drugs,.

[Baseballa19]

Just to clear up a misconception. Pitchers today DO NOT throw harder than those in previous eras. Despite everything you see on television today, it is a FACT that less than 10 percent of today's big league pitchers CONSISTANTLY throw 90+ mph. You can't rely on the speed figures given by the networks or those in big league ball parks. They are WAY high. I've seen Tom Glavine pitch on television where he was said to have been consistantly at 90-91 with his fastball. Glavine hasn't thrown a pitch above 89 in years. Why would they do this? The same reason that balls are juiced and players are too. The public wants high numbers. They pay for high numbers.

Bonds taking steroids is an afront to the integrity of the game, but the buying public doesn't care. They want too see home runs. Why do you think most new ball parks are smaller? Why did baseball take away the pitcher's edge after the most dominating pitching year in history (1968)? Because the public wants offense. What we're seeing may not be the same game, but it's pretty exciting. Taco Bell isn't even close to real Mexican food, but DAMN I love those burritos!

[eddo31]

while it is true that the hardest throwing pitchers today dont throw much harder than those in the past, the sheer number of pitchers that trow 90+ no wis staggering, and it is much higher than 10%. and no, i dont believe the fox guns either. steroids can aid pitchers just as much as they can aid hitters, and they are expected to add 3-4 mph to a fastball, which is a very significant increase.

i am really waffling on bonds. while i am not sure that what he did is an affront to the game, i dont like how he handled the situation. he knew that he was taking roids, and he lied to a grand jury about it. at least giambi came clean.

the real villain here that will likely go unexposed are the owners. they knew that a large percentage of players were on the juice, and yet they did nothing to stop it. home runs sell tickets, and the owners could care less about the long term helth of the players or the game. all they care about is their wallet, and they are too shortsighted to think about the long run damage done by a scandal like this

[Baseballa19]

eddo31,

Don't take my word for it. Track down someone in the business of professional baseball scouting. It is a MYTH that every staff has 4 guys that throw 90+ consistantly. The 10% stat is a fact. It's not something I've made up.

[Kidd7138]

There's no way that I believe that only 10% of pitchers in the majors throw 90+. That means that theres only on average 1-2 guys on each staff that have good velocity. I find it especially hard to believe when I can think of about 5 guys who played for the Red Sox's Hi-A class team this past year that scouts reported can throw over 90.

[Baseballa19]

Guys, the statement said CONSISTENTLY throw 90+. Lots of guys can TOUCH 90-92 on the gun, but PITCH at 87-89. There's a big difference between MAX velocity and AVERAGE velocity. I'm not talking about averaging in the speeds of off speed pitches either. I'm talking about average fastball velocity.

It also stands to reason that any given minor league staff would have multiple guys with great velocity because there are MANY more minor league pitchers than big leaguers. Just throwing hard doesn't get you to the big leagues.

The AVERAGE major league fastball is 88 MPH. That is a fact.

[eddo31]

i actually work in baseball, so it isnt particularly difficult for me to track this info down.

you are right that the radar guns that fans see in the ballparks are a lie, but there are many more than 10% of the pitchers in major league baseball that throw over 90. 10% would be roughly 1 person per major league team, and I can name off the top of my head at least 30 pitchers who consistently throw 90.

[eddo31]

im just curious, but where do you get these facts? i wouldnt be surprised if the averag evelocity was 88, but i also wouldnt be surprised if the average velocity was 90.

i will back you up on the claim about minor leaguers though. not for the reason that there are so many more of them, but because there are many high school kids and college kids that can throw 90. the problem with many fo them though is that they get injured, and by the time they reach the major leagues, if they do so at all, they have learned how to PITCH, not just how to throw. there is a big difference, which i would asusme you already knew.

[Baseballa19]

My info comes from professional scouts and different coaching journals. I am only a lowly high school coach, but have been in the business for 20 years and have had 8 kids drafted, at least that many more scouted, and have almost 50 kids that have played at the next level at least.

[eddo31]

baseballa19

i dont mean to disparage you at all, and i woul dnever lable a high school coach as a lowly position. i completely respect anyone who is a high school coach, especially for that length of time. that is a very difficult job to do, and it really puts a significant number of people in tough situations.

i hope that none of my comments came off negatively. fo the most part i think that we agree that radar gun readings are very rarely legitimate, but i just happen to believe that a higher percentage of pitchers throw 90 than you do. no big difference