The TalkingPoker.com Forum  

Go Back   The TalkingPoker.com Forum > All Things Poker > General Poker Discussion
Register Blogs Arcade HH Converter Calendar

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-07, 12:02 AM
Invigilator's Avatar
Invigilator Invigilator is offline
Professional Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,853
Blog Entries: 11
Invigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep Points
Default Beefing up positional aggression

I have been doing analysis using PT and have found that I am not particularly aggressive from specific positions. I would love to hear your thoughts on how you think about and apply selective agression from...

The Blinds
UTG
the Button.

(I seem to be playing well from middle positions)

Any thoughts really. I have read a number of books, but what do you like to raise with in these positions? Or, what special considerations are in your analysis when playing these positions specifically.

I realize that this is a very situational question. I am just looking for some input to jump start my thought process on this.
--------------------------------------------------------------
If, despite my qualifying statements, this is just too general to address, I am sorry and I will go sit in the corner.
__________________
poopity, poopity pants.
  #2  
Old 05-04-07, 12:58 AM
Talking Poker's Avatar
Talking Poker Talking Poker is offline
Adminimus Maximus
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florida Coast
Posts: 27,480
Talking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsTalking Poker has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

It is indeed general, but no need to sit in the corner. I'm sure others will give better responses, but I'll give you this to think about:

When you are on the button, you're the man. You are going to have a positional advantage over your opponents no matter who else enters the pot. So play it aggressively. Very aggressively. Your VPIP from the button should be significantly higher than your UTG VPIP, for example. If no one is in the pot ahead of you, you can raise with a LOT of hands. If there are limpers, you can still raise with a lot of hands. If someone has opened, this is a great time to 3 bet, because you're really going to be putting the pressure on them, since you have such a positional advantage. NEVER ever EVER be the first limper in a pot from the button. Ever. That SCREAMS donkey, and when I see it, I punish it.

From UTG, on the other hand, things are a lot different. I will occasionally limp with small pairs, but generally I still raise with them (or fold them, depending on the table I am at). Suited connectors and hands like that lose a lot of value from UTG, so play a lot tighter.

From the Blinds, DON'T make a lot of loose calls just because you aleady have money in the pot. Remember, you are at a positional disadvantage for the rest of the hand. It's ok to just fold now and let it go. If you think someone is stealing, or if you have a hand you really want to play (like an ATs hand, for example), reraise with it and then lead at the flop. Cold calling from the blinds with hands like that is terrible. It took me a long time to realize how bad of a play that was... I wish I had figured it out sooner, honestly. Fold or 3 bet - Cold calling one raiser (it's different if there are multiple other players in the pot, of course) is bad.

Also, if you haven't watched any of my old videos yet, I'd recommend it. Position aggression is one of the first things I ever talked about and I always try to stress it throughout my videos.
__________________

Got RakeBack?
27% at Full Tilt | 33% at Cake Poker | 30% at Carbon Poker
  #3  
Old 05-04-07, 03:00 AM
Zybomb's Avatar
Zybomb Zybomb is offline
TP Live Ring Specialist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 6,607
Blog Entries: 7
Zybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

Good response but the bolded text is something I want to comment on.

I actually prefer simply calling rather than three betting from the button a lot of the time, since like you said I have a positional advantage and I can use that to exploit them, particularly if deep stacked. IF we are playing a cash game with only 100 BB stacks, In a 3 bet pot, if you're called and then CB, your opponent only move is usually to push or fold, or make a raise which essentially commits himself.... thus I believe you give up a lot of your positional advantage by three betting since most of the action will be settled right then and there on the flop. I certainly like to three bet a ot on the button still, but I've found calling in position to be quite profitable as well....

Im much more likely to three bet OOP (from the blinds for example) to compensate for the fact that I will be OOP for the remainder of the hand
Comments?
__________________
"Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents."

Last edited by Zybomb; 05-04-07 at 03:34 AM.
  #4  
Old 05-04-07, 03:09 AM
Zybomb's Avatar
Zybomb Zybomb is offline
TP Live Ring Specialist
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 6,607
Blog Entries: 7
Zybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep PointsZybomb has between 3000 and 3499 Rep Points
Default

As for the original posted question, I like to have my LP/button range extremely wide. If folded to me I'll open with any pair, any Ace, any two cards T or higher, suited connectors, suited one gappers... and sometimes expand that range to suited kings, unsuited connectors and suited 2 gappers as well.

UTG you should be playings a tight range. I like raising with 99+ and AQ+, however I will mix in raises with smaller pairs, suited connectors and other random hands simply to avoid predictability. For example if my opponent knows I have a tight opening range of 99+ AQ+ UTG and they call and the flop comes 5 6 7 , they know that no matter what I have (outside of A K i guess) I cant really like this flop that much, and if they play back at me Im going to put to a tough decision. I erase that predictability by occassionally raising 78s type hands as well.

Hands you should not be playing (for a limp or a raise) UTG are trouble hands, KT KJ KQ, AT, AJ. I'll sometimes raise with KQs and AJs to mix things up, or if my UTG raises get respected a lot -- but mostly find a lot of folds. At a tighter table that has many limped pots, limping with any pair and suited connectors/one gappers becomes perfectly acceptable. At a tough table toss suited connectors, but in cash games I like to call with any pair and call any standard raise simply for implied odd set value.

From the blinds I'll three bet mostly if Im going to play if it's going to be HU. I'll call if the pot is multiway (or squeeze sometimes). My range depends on the opener. I'll 3 bet a light opener with A9+, KJ+ and any pair... I'll sometimes include suited connectors and 1 gappers. A tight opener I'll fold mostly, and three bet with AQ+ and TT+

From the SB or in EP I like to raise a little more (to compensate for the disadvantage of being OOP after the flop) and in LP I like to raise a little less (for pot control purposes and to use my positional advantage)
__________________
"Most of the money you'll win at poker comes not from the brilliance of your own play, but from the ineptitude of your opponents."
  #5  
Old 05-04-07, 05:48 PM
Invigilator's Avatar
Invigilator Invigilator is offline
Professional Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,853
Blog Entries: 11
Invigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep Points
Default

Thanks for this part especially. Once the limp parade has started and it gets around to me, I am never quite sure how to handle it.
__________________
poopity, poopity pants.
  #6  
Old 05-04-07, 05:51 PM
Invigilator's Avatar
Invigilator Invigilator is offline
Professional Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,853
Blog Entries: 11
Invigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep Points
Default

THIS is definitely something I have to work on. The more people I talk to (here and in person), the more I realize that my early position range is far to wide.

Thanks
__________________
poopity, poopity pants.
  #7  
Old 05-04-07, 06:16 PM
Invigilator's Avatar
Invigilator Invigilator is offline
Professional Amateur
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,853
Blog Entries: 11
Invigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep PointsInvigilator has between 1000 and 1499 Rep Points
Default homework

This is my weekend project. I am going to take some time to watch a variety of the videos that you and others have posted. I seem to be finding myself in a very focussed "study" phase these days. I have been reviewing a lot of the sources I read when I got started in poker and the notes I made on my own play.

The wife and I are going to see "Lucky You" tonight, and I just might come home in the mood... to work on poker stuff. (including my review of the film)
__________________
poopity, poopity pants.
  #8  
Old 05-04-07, 08:43 PM
eejit101's Avatar
eejit101 eejit101 is offline
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 5,168
eejit101 has between 100 and 249 Rep Pointseejit101 has between 100 and 249 Rep Pointseejit101 has between 100 and 249 Rep Points
Default

damn nothing for me to sya.

just remember that UTG you have between 5 and 8 hands behind you. ATs loses value for example, so play less hands there than you are doing and way more from the button by the sounds of it.

One thing tho- while the button is huge, the cut off is imilar, making a raise fromt here often steals the button positon (if you raise and the button folds, your the new button), so all the late position places are effectively the button if they fold after you. Also dont raise evry good hand, you cn mix in limps IMO. I dont like limping from the button, but sometimes mixing ti up helps
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2004-2008 TalkingPoker.com