Heads Up Stats and Game Selection...

[Talking Poker]

This is directed at those of you who play a lot of HU cash games (and ideally those of you who are winners)...

I've been experimenting with some Heads Up tables lately, and I definitely think there is potential for them to be profitable. I've only logged 600 or so hands, so my numbers are pretty much meaningless... but I do have some general observations.

So far, I've seen a couple different kinds of opponents - good players (or at least average) and bad players (below average). I know, I'm a genius, right? Anyway, through 600 hands, I haven't seen anything that has really floored me or even once felt like I was outmatched by my opponent. That's not that say that I wasn't, but it wasn't so bad that I ever felt the need to leave the table or anything. There HAVE been times, however, where I felt like I was far superior to my opponent, could quickly identify his style and exploit his weaknesses. Obviously, this is going to be a much more profitable situation for me to play in long term.

So, after all this rambling, my question is this: What criteria do you guys use for Table Selection? Do you actually target certain opponents, or do you just sit down and see who shows up to play? So far, I've been doing the latter, but just like in 6 max or full ring games, I have to assume good game selection is +EV. I imagine one could datamine the HU tables for hours and hours, identify and seek out the weakest opponents and join their waiting lists in hopes that their opponent leaves, but realistically, how often will this work? I'm thinking the weakest of opponents are probably playing with most of all of their bankroll and they won't be around long enough to play them anyway...

My theory right now is to choose tables based on the sizes of the players' stacks. If someone is sitting alone with half a buy in, chances are he's a weak player. If he sitting with 3 buy ins, chances are he's decent - he's obviously been winning. I can't imagine any good player ever sitting with a fraction of a buy in though (unless he's playing JD's crazy MIN bet game), so I think it's fair to assume those players are weak. Also, if there are two players at a table and both have short stacks, chances are they are both weak and that might be a waiting list worth joining. Eventually, one will break they other and have a full buy in in front of him, but that certainly doesn't mean he's a good player - in fact, that may be the ideal situation to seek out.

Sorry for all the rambling... I'm just trying to work some thoughts out in my head and writing this is helping. What are others' thoughts on this?

And lastly, for those of you who have logged a lot of HU hands, what do your PT numbers look like? I'm just curious.

[Talking Poker]

So, about that theory...

I found a table with two donks sitting with about half a buy in each and got myself on the waiting list. One of them left, and I sat down. Here was the SECOND (and final) hand that I got to play...

You see, the only problem with the theory is that when these dorks double up, a lot of times they are going to hit and run. If they would stay for a while, great, I think playing them would be a no brainer, but when they hit and run like this, well, shit happens.

I'd be happy to hear input on this hand too, btw. I guess the math wasn't QUITE there for me to call (especially if you discount some of my outs), but I thought it was close enough at the time.


FullTiltPoker Game #1441093663: Table Spoon (heads up) - $3/$6 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:26:42 ET - 2006/12/20
Seat 1: Buckohfive ($313.05)
Seat 2: Troll Pie ($603)
Troll Pie posts the small blind of $3
Buckohfive posts the big blind of $6
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Troll Pie [5s 8s]
Troll Pie raises to $18
Buckohfive calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Js Ts 6h]
Buckohfive checks
Troll Pie bets $24
Buckohfive raises to $72
Troll Pie calls $48
*** TURN *** [Js Ts 6h] [7h]
Buckohfive bets $223.05, and is all in
Troll Pie calls $223.05
Buckohfive shows [5d Jd]
Troll Pie shows [5s 8s]
*** RIVER *** [Js Ts 6h 7h] [8c]
Buckohfive shows a pair of Jacks
Troll Pie shows a pair of Eights
Buckohfive wins the pot ($625.60) with a pair of Jacks
Buckohfive is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $626.10 | Rake $0.50
Board: [Js Ts 6h 7h 8c]
Seat 1: Buckohfive (big blind) showed [5d Jd] and won ($625.60) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 2: Troll Pie (small blind) showed [5s 8s] and lost with a pair of Eights

[Boobie Lover]

hunlhe.jpg

There's the lifetime stats for me at the Full Tilt HU cash games. HU game selection is probably more important than 6max tables, but I just sit at random tables and if there is some player that I believe is better than me (or at least just as hyper aggressive as me and will create problems down the line), I'll stand up and not play him. Most of the time though, I think I have an advantage over some random player.

Another thing that I do is refuse to play against some person that buys in for less than 40 BBs.Although the random person that buys in for that amount is in general a much weaker opponent than someone that buys in for the maximum allowed, I probably have to device some other style to play that opponent, and I don't really want too drastic of styles when I am playing 3-4 tables of HU.

[JDMcNugent7]

I've been playing alot of HU lately and noticed:

1) I don't play people who buy in less than 1/2 the max. they usually just hit n run and it isn't worth the frustration or $.
2) I usually just sit at random tables and leave if I think the person is better than me.
3) I like to try to get the same person to play me 2 tables at one time. If they tilt it's double the $, if I'm better than them it's double the $, and I can find out how they play faster, and it kinda reduces variance.
4) Game selection HU would be more important than 6m for sure.
5) They seem to be very profitable games but you have to be in the right mood to play them.
6) I pretty much refuse to play people who just limp PF every pot unless they are very weak post flop. It's just very annoying, and is basically just grinding them down in blinds, rather than playing any fun poker and it really annoys me.

[Talking Poker]

So.... JD and I played about 325 hands HU tonight, 2 tabling 2/4 NL. He found me at a 3/6 table and offered to have the winner transfer the loser back half of the difference, but we decided to just play 2/4 instead.

Overall, it went well. I definitely learned a few things. JD is better than me, for sure, but he doesn't think he's as much better than me as I do. That's nice and all, but he's got me. Where his biggest edge is is with pure postflop aggression. PReflop too, I guess, but definitely postflop. He's willing to make some crazy BIG raises with nothing - and I don't mean just a drawe (which I still struggle with, even), I mean NOTHING. Like 4 high. Fucker.

We chatted the whole time we played, discussing some of the hands and telling each other what we had afterwards. I started off up a bit, then ran disgustingly bad and was down about $1200 after , but finally started hitting some hands and won back about $1000 of it.

The only BIG pot I won (all in) was when my set of 8s held up against his QQ on an 89T board. He played it right. Oh, I also won a big pot with J9 after I flopped a FH and JD made a straight on the river (he had a FD on the turn too). I lost our big coinflip (TT vs AK). I'd still say variance was slightly in his favor overall, but I definitely had ther edge for the last 1/3 of the session.

We had lots of interesting hands. Maybe I'll dig through PT and post some tomorrow.

[JDMcNugent7]

You played good.
I ran well, then u ran well.

the hand where u said I raised with 4 high and no draw in previous post, I actually hit a straight draw on the turn where I raised. Still it's obviously a bluff, but I raised for a # of reasons:


1) we were deep stacked, and u just recently said u werent too comfortable playing this deep v me
2) you bet into me which was weird and differnt and I didn't think you had anything real good
3) even if you called I was pushing river and expecting u to fold

I know you didn't question my play, I'm just showing others that every play should have alot of reasons and thoughts behind it and as long as ur thinking that much about a hand, even if it doesnt work, its usually a good play, and u will win overall.

[Kurn]

OK, so when's the next TPF HU tourney?

[Talking Poker]

The part that surprises me was that you had just made a comment about making a play or something so I even said in the chat, "Well, here's a play I don't think I've made much" when I lead out. I then wrote, "I'm expecting you to come over top top of me," and then you did. I could have done that with the stone cold nuts there, but think time, I just had like 3rd pair or whatever. Then you said you didn't even see the chat until after you popped me. I wonder if you had read that if it would have changed how you played it. I really thought you'd fold, or if anything, call and try to make a play at me on the river (where I would have check/called you).