I need a different perspective.

[Misc]

I posted this over at PTP, but I felt I would like a different perspective. I would appreciate anyone's comments here.

I have only been at PTP for a few months and have received a very warm welcome and appreciate it wholeheartedly. After investing a couple of hundred in BAPs and MAD, I started running a couple of stakes, and then opened my first BAP for $600. It sold out much faster than I expected, and I had additional investors inquiring about my future action before I even began playing for my first BAP. After a succesful run, I opened my second BAP with a higher BR of $1,150 to accomodate new investors.

This kept continuing, as previous investors wanted to continue to participate in my action and new investors wanted to invest. Next it was a $2,500 BR, then a $4,500 BR. I have managed them all successfully from start to finish and shipped back all of them promptly when the BAP closed. Fortunately, all of them have profitted.

I have a somewhat loyal investor base (except for one BAP with a different plan that is still unsold), and I have remained loyal to them in my time here. I also have some investors that would like to participate in my future action, who have been unable to get shares reserved in my previous BAPs. This would likely require a larger BR again, and playing for a longer period of time or at higher levels again.

I am comfortable handling the size of the bankrolls. I am comfortable playing at the levels I am playing and am confident to move up to a higher level. However, I am not sure I am offering the best value for my investors.

The bigger the BR gets, the more dilluted the profits are. I am a BR nit and a CAKE adverse horse. I offer cake, but don't ever want to owe it. So, when a downswing occurs, I shift games and levels rapidly to prevent a disaster. That is why I have always grinded my BAPs back into profit and included an extension clause if the BR was negative when the original BAP volume/timeframe was met.

For example, when my $4,500 BAP got negative $800 at one point, I quickly dropped and changed games to grind some back. I never really needed the whole $4,500, luckily we recovered. My other BAPs were similar, in that the BAPs got into profit quickly, and the BR was there as a cushion against any possible downswing that never occured.

This is not a brag thread. I have been fortunate to get off to such a good start here at PTP. I felt it necessary to describe my history, so I can get to my point.

Instead of going with a bigger bankroll with a longer timeframe, I am leaning more toward the type of horse I wanted to be when I first got here. I feel there are not enough one week or less SNG BAPs being offered in the BAPs area. If I put up a BAP like my first one for example, where I raised $600, for 50 buyins for $12 45-man games, to play 100 games in one week or less. I will not be able to sqeeze all of my previous investors into that BR, let alone be able to attract any new investors.

So, I am thinking of removing the extension clause from my BAPs and not being so afraid of cake anymore. I will still run low risk BAPs, but if they end down, they end down. Cake will be owed until my next BAP or stake with those investors.

My main question is, what is the best way to handle this? Which investors should get priority to invest in my future smaller BAPs? Should it be on a first-come, first served basis? Should I give preference to investors who have been there since my very first BAP? What about investors who were in my most recent BAPs? Fortunately, I do not owe anyone cake right now, but with a new plan like this, I can see a time where cake could be owed. What about future cake holders, should they get precendence over any other investors past or present?

I am thinking of doing it on a first come, first served basis, and then once a month (or once every two weeks) I will hold a "cake holders only" BAP. The reason I am leaning this way is because I anticipate my next run of BAPs to be short term 1-7 day ventures that would require timely transfers. I would not want to be delayed by a couple of days waiting for a previous investor to see the ad. My theory being that quick hit short term BAP investors want to ship now and get their money back with profit in an hour.

What is my obligation here? Or at the very least, what is the best way to proceed if I am planning on running smaller, shorter term, BAPs than I have been?

[Wes]

is there some reason why you haven't invested in yourself after making successful baps so you don't need to be staked any more?

[Talking Poker]

There are a number of ways you could handle this.

"First Come, First Served" certainly works, but it rewards the people who happen to be online when your BAP goes up and punished (Well, doesn't reward) your most loyal investors who have been with you the whole time, willing to stake you when you were an unknown.

Another option which would require more work but would be the most fair, would be to add up all the investments you have received from everyone to date. Figure out what % of you each of your investors has had in you, and offer them an equal amount in the next BAP. If they want it, great. If not, open up the remaining shares to previous investors or the open market on a first come first served basis.

Yeah, it's more work, but at least you know if you do it like this, it's completely fair. As one of your investors, I know I would appreciate it.

[thrash1294]

YEA what Wes said.......
What the hell are you thinking?

PLAY FOR YOU

[Misc]

This is why the problem exists in my brain. I do feel a bit beholden to my previous investors. However, aren't those agreements over and haven't I fulfilled them?

As a new horse, I knew I would have to make an appealing BAP ad with very little risk to investors to attract them. Orginally, I wanted to build a good rep and ultimately transfer more of the risk to the investors, and run shorter term ventures. My plan to do that was to offer cake, a BR management plan, and an extension clause that virtually guaranteed profit for the investors.

I was successful. My BAP ad, as worded, with all the safety nets in place, attracted much attention. Now, with the investors help, I have built my own reputation at the site. I am not a "baller," but I made the most of the opportunities offered to me at PTP so far, and I have built my own reputation. As you know, when new members are entrusted to the bankrolls I have been entrusted to, it can go many ways. Mine have gone the way they have. That's all I will say about it.

I am flattered that you would call it "rewarding" people to invest in my BAPs, however I don't look at it that way. I look at it as rewarding my previous investors by having an "extension" clause in my BAPs that would extend the BAP until we reach profit, if it ended down in it's normal course. I am now talking about removing that extension clause, and most of the BR management part of the BAPs.

I plan on running short term very specific BAPs, win or lose (still with cake.) For example, 100 games of $27 45-man games from 50 buyins. No dropping if BR reaches whatever, no extending if we are down. 100 games and over, win or lose. Cake still offered and honored.

Hypothetically, if I run ten identical BAPs of 100 SNGs each, I would expect 7 to profit and 3 to lose. These expectations could be altered significantly by actual results. Without an extension clause in those three losing BAPs, it doesn't quite seem like a reward for those investors. The reward doesn't come until the BAP is over and it is in profit. No?

Before anyone asks about cake. I do not offer two kinds of cake. In my SNG low risk BAPs, I offer full standard cake. In my high risk MTT BAPs, I do not offer cake at all, but offer a 70/30 backers split instead. I mention this in case it affects anyone's opinion here.

Finally, to further offer reasoning for being staked, there are many. I think it is a matter of perspective. For me it just makes sense in the long run. I realize if I win I am giving up half my profits, however, IMO it is worth it for a more stable income if I can keep my funds available to stake other horses.

[Misc]

Well, I do invest in my own BAPs, but I don't think that's what you are asking. Most of what used to be my playing BR is now staked out in other BAPs and stakes. When I found PTP, I looked at it as spreading the risk of variance among many profitable horses, to come up with a net result of a more stable income from poker. So, in the months I have been there, my profits have either been re-invested into my staking bankroll, or withdrawn for what I like to call "incidentals."

[JDMcNugent7]

How much have u made total? And how much is actually yours to keep?

[Misc]

Without adding them all up, I am simply going by how many points I have earned at PTP. I have earned my stakes and BAPs ~$2600+ in about 4 months, and have split that basically 50/50 with my investors, so I have kept ~$1300 and shipped ~$1300 profit.

As far as staking goes, I have earned ~$1700 staking other horses in the same timeframe.

Relevance?