Full Tilt bots at 1/2nl.

[MAYHEM45]

OMG

[Talking Poker]

I'm reading this now. This is VERY interesting.

[jillaj]

I need to check my stats to see how many hands I have against these bots.

[Reel Deal]

I've played against 1forthethumb several times.

Edit: and mariojr

They play at full ring $200 NL

[MAYHEM45]

I dont have any hands on them, but I only ever played 6max. They are FR bots.

[Talking Poker]

The first post in that thread is indeed amazing, and eye opening, etc. But then it turns into typical 2+2 syndrome with pages and pages and pages of useless crap that I personally find impossible to wade through. My favorite are all the toold the quote other people's responses without adding a word. Yeah, we know you agree, but my God, isn't it hard enough to wade through all this shit?

For you at TP who don't feel like digging through all of that (I've pretty much given up by Page 3), here is one poster's summary of the OP:

If someone here actually digs through everything and stays on top of this, please keep us updated. At the very least, I'd like to see Full Tilt's official response.

I'm planning on emailing them and asking for a direct response to the accusations made in that thread, and I think it would be a good idea for everyone else to do the same.

[MAYHEM45]

I've already emailed them as well, i'll let you know when the respond in a week or two.

Ive skimmed the whole thread and it seems that FTPSean (their security liason for 2p2) is online and posting in other threads, but hasnt read this one yet. I'll let you know what their statement is when they post.

[Talking Poker]

I'm, tempted to tell them I won't be playing any more ring games on their site until I hear back from them, but I think I'll give them a day or two first...

[Talking Poker]

As for my thoughts on this, my initial reaction is always to shrug off NL bots. Ohhh, 14/7 TAGs, how ever will I beat them?

But then I realized something (when I read it in that dude's post): Their mere existence is still -EV for me. While *I* may be able to beat them, if they are running on auto-pilot for countless hours and are busting fish, that's money they are winning that *I* could/should be winning. Honestly, I feel really stupid for haveing never put that together before.

The one thing I find most interesting though is this: If this bot programmer hadn't be so stupid and greedy, he could have gotten away with this indefinitely. By playing 1 account on 8-12 tables for a couple of 4 hour sessions per day, he would have never been caught. But by playing on at least THREE accounts and always at the same times and never at the same tables (DUH), he's exposed himself as a multiple account holder if nothing else, and based on all the evidence, it seems pretty clear he's using identical bots too. I mean, dude, if you are going to go through the trouble of playing with multiple bots, at least give them different "personalities" (ie, make one 14/7, another 16/12, and another 18/14 or something) and DON'T play them all at exactly the same times day after day after day.

Duuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh.........

[stormswa]

this was just posted.....

[sjay2k]

I hate NMDynasty so much. he's always chastising fish and plays such a lame boring style.

One hand I played against him was pretty cool. 5/10NL, MUCKEMSAYUHHH (v good lag) opens UTG to $35, I call on the button with QJss and NMDynasty calls from the SB. Effective stacks are about $1300.

Flop is Q-J-5 rainbow. NM checks, MUCKEM leads for $95, I raise to $269, NM check-raises to about $500, MUCKEM folds, chat goes something like this:

me: loool nm u r the worst
me: you have 55
me: nothing else
me: im folding QJ
me: if u show anything other than 55 i will pay u $55

I let my time run down (so he can uncheck auto-muck), I fold and he auto-mucks. He then starts abusing me in chat, saying what a horrible fold it was and challenging me to play more tables (we were already playing about 4 tables together).

The funny thing is, the next time we were in a hand, he bet the flop, I raised with my overpair, he shoved, I called and he had a flush draw.

I hate NM though because he must play a million hands per year and has made more money from poker than i ever will. Not sure he's even a winner in today's games, but his nit style would've been hugely successful in the old loose-passive games.

[sjay2k]

i would have grimmed him if he had actually shown anything else (but i mean cmon he had fives)

[Talking Poker]

That's one big fold, but against him, what else could it be? Maybe also QJ or even JJ knowing him, but that's it. There is no other hand he plays like that.

[stormswa]

the guy accused of using bots is now posting in the thread.

[stormswa]

to sum it up.


basically the user is saying that 4 players sit in the same room side by side and play a basic strategy post and preflop and basically the same way regardless of board. (Although this is unlikely it is possible and would possibly make break even players.)

full tilt did a month long investigation on these guys and found they did nothing wrong.

it is very interesting to see how this turns out, but I dont think anything will come of this.

they are getting flooded with question like how do you play the same way on flop but they wont answer because they dont want to give away their strategy. I dont have a opinion on this, I actull just dont know?

[Van_Broked]

Me neither, I just don't know enough about variance etc to know if their postflop numbers could be that close. Sitting on the fence for now.

[GTDawg]

I think it's impossible for 3 guys to play in the same room and play "the same strategy" and have the exact same pt numbers as Trebek or whoever it was accuses.

That's gotta be impossible.

[Talking Poker]

I just read through all 79 (and counting) pages. God, I hate me.

IMO, one dude is running a sweatshot type of operation. No one knows the details but him, but my guess is he's got like 3-4 dudes who sit down and all multitable. They have all been trained on a very specific system to follow, and they all follow it as best they can. He's standing up and circulating through the room to help out when any tricky situations come up.

Maybe he's doing this all by himself and borrowed the utility bills of some friends. Maybe he's using a bot to follow that same system for all his preflop decisions, and he then takes over postflop (or after the near 100% flop CB). Maybe they all split porfits or maybe he pays them an hourly rate to sit there and do their thing. Who knows?

Ethical, unethical - hell if I know. But what bothers me the most about the whole thing is that after 24 hours and 79 pages of posts in this one thread, there have been ZERO posts made by Full tilt reps, and I have yet to receive a response to my email. Even a simple, "We investigated this and have cleared the players in question" would be something, but they have done nothing.

[Talking Poker]

FTPDoug Responds:

[Talking Poker]

Here is a pic of their alleged setup (posted by the main guy).

Honestly, this looks to me like a one man set up with two extra chairs thrown in there for the sake of the photo. I mean, I guess three guys could cram in there, but why in the world would they???

[stormswa]

im jelous of that setup, not the bot thing but all the monitors!

[sjay2k]

heh? it's a pretty horrible setup

[Spuddy]

The whole point isn't to have a nice set-up it's convience. 4 computers for 4 bots! Leave it on all day

[stormswa]

id take it over my single monitor set up.