NetTeller arrests
 

Whoa.



NETELLER BREAKING NEWS


Leading payment processor Neteller has sought the temporary suspension of its shares after it emerged that two former directors had been arrested in the US.

Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre were detained by the US authorities while travelling separately. It is believed at least one was arrested in Los Angeles.

In a statement, Neteller said neither Lawrence or Lefebvre had any current position within the company. It added: “The group has not received any communication or correspondence from any US authority regarding this or any related matter.”

Lebebvre left Neteller in December 2005 while Lawrence left in October last year, just after the passing of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. Lebebvre and Lawrence each own approximately 5% of the company's capital.

It is not known whether they have been arrested by state or Federal authorities.

eGaming Review will update as soon as more is known.

Interesting.........


Wonder if Netteller will shut down?

Whoa is right.

More:





If (and this is a HUGE if at this point) Neteller pulls out of the U.S. market........ well, that would be bad.

Ack :(

The charge is money laundering
 

Also, don't miss the last paragraph



Neteller BREAKING NEWS UPDATE

Neteller founders Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre have been charged with money laundering offences by the US Attorney General in the Southern District of New York.

A statement from the office of Michael Garcia added that Lawrence and Lefebvre had been arrested in connection with the “creation and operation of an internet payment services company that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds from US citizens to the owners of various internet gambling companies located overseas”.

Lawrence and Lefebvre were arrested in the early hours of Monday morning, January 15. Lawrence was arrested yesterday in the US Virgin Islands and will be presented in federal court in St Thomas by tomorrow. Lefebvre was arrested in Malibu, California, and will be presented in a Los Angeles court later today.

Neteller suspended its share price this morning as the news broke.

In a statement released earlier today, Neteller said neither Lawrence or Lefebvre had any current position within the company. The statement added: “The group has not received any communication or correspondence from any US authority regarding this or any related matter.”

Lebebvre left Neteller in December 2005 while Lawrence left in October last year, just after the passing of the Unlawful Internet Gaming Enforcement Act (UIGEA).

The news of the Neteller arrests spelt more bad news for those operators that have not exited the US.

Said one legal source: “It’s a warning shot across the bows for those still taking money from the US.”

He added: “They are aiming their strategy at the finance provision. It is consistent with the UIGEA. It is a more effective strategy than going after the operators themselves, such as PokerStars. When you get the money providers, you get the portfolio of operators.”

One leading operator suggested this was particularly bad news for those poker operators that remain in the US market. “This could be terminal for the poker business in the US. The average punter will not be willing to jump through the hoops (to get their payments through).”

At this point, this makes no sense if they both are nothing more than shareholders. Strange.

This either has nothing to do with the UIGEA or nothing to do with NETeller.

Both men left their employment of NETeller either prior to or right at the signing of the legislation. Since Article I, Section 9 of the US Constitution explicitly forbids ex post facto laws, they can't be arrested for any transactions they did while employed by NETeller that were not illegal at the time.

If this is about their activities since the passage of UIGEA, it cannot involve NETeller since they didn't work there.

Now, on the other hand, there are many other forms of money laundering that might occur that would have been illegal even if the US had completely legalized internet gambling, so I think we need to wait until all the facts come out before we panic.

From CardPlayer.com

FBI Arrests Former NETELLER Executives
Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre Detained while Traveling Separately
Two former NETELLER executives were detained while traveling separately through the United States yesterday (Jan. 15) in "connection with the creation and operation of an Internet payment services company that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds from United States citizens to the owners of various Internet gambling companies located overseas," according to the U.S. Attorney General's office of Southern New York.

NETELLER suspended trading its shares on the London Stock Exchange in lieu of the detention of founding members Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre. Besides owning stock in NETELLER, the two do not hold any positions with the company.

NETELLER is an “e-Wallet” service that allows people to transfer money directly from their bank accounts to other parties. It’s the main service many online poker players and gamblers use to transfer money in and out of their preferred sites.

Here’s the complete release from the U.S. Attorney’s office:

"U.S. Charges Two Founders of Payment Services Company with Laundering Billions of Dollars of Internet Gambling Proceeds

Michael J. Garcia, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Mark J. Mershon, the Assistant Director in charge of the New York office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, announced today that Stephen Eric Lawrence and John David Lefebvre were arrested yesterday in connection with the creation and operation of an Internet payment services company that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds from United States citizens to the owners of various Internet gambling companies located overseas."

NETELLER says it hasn’t received any kind of correspondence from the U.S. government concerning this situation, and although the subject line of this email (sent by a media representative of the AG's office) says they were charged with money laundering, CardPlayer.com is working on confirming the exact charges.

Lawrence and Lefebvre each own close to 6 percent of the company’s shares. Lawrence resigned as a non-executive director of the company in October; Lefebvre resigned from the same position in December of 2005.

Although Lefebvre and Lawrence do not and never have owned an online gambling site, they join a small club of men who have been arrested and charged by the Federal Government for violating various laws concerning online gambling, particularly money laundering.


Executives with online gambling companies Sportingbet and BetOnSports were arrested and charged with taking bets over the Internet (among other charges) in 2006, but this is the first time people affiliated with an “e-Wallet” have been targeted.

In October, President George W. Bush signed into law the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, which is designed to curb online gambling by targeting banks that cooperate with online sites. The Treasury Department is still working out the details on how to enforce this law, and have until summer to do so.

NETELLER is based in the Isle of Man, and neither Lawrence nor Lefebvre are U.S. citizens.

Please click here to visit CardPlayer.com’s special section on the law and the Internet.

Fuck

Kurn mentions the points I was going to make.

Involving the UIGEA and involving NETeller are mutually exclusive events in this situation.
The wording of the above article is sketchy at best.

I'm going to make a wild guess
 

The bold part above sounds to me like the feds have some evidence the accused have some connection to some US-based bookmaking operations and knowingly facilitated the transfer of funds from those operations to online sites thus enabling the initial depositors to repatriate the cash at a later date and make it look clean.

Just a guess, but that's what the language there suggests to me.

If they don't have some evidence along the lines that Kurn is suggesting then they are going to have a hard time making this stick.

Sorry guys, give me a quick breakdown of what's going on here, I don't have time as I'm at work. Will I need to start emptying out the neteller account into Stars and Tilt?

Yeah. Get money out now?

I see absolutely no reason to panic. Even if Neteller decides to discontinue business with the U.S. (worst case scenario), they aren't going to steal your money. You'll still be allowed to withdraw it. If you feel safer having your money on Stars (for example), then go for it.... but remember, just a few month ago, the Chicken Little's were all withdrawing their money from Stars because they thought it was safer on Neteller.

Meh I put some on stars and cashed the rest out to my bank account, which I was gonna do anyway, better to be earning interest on it. And if I need money on some random site quick, Full Tilt takes less than an hour to cash out to neteller. Better safe than sorry.

I think one important thing to find out (not sure if I've seen the answer to this) is whether they were granted their request to suspend trading on their shares on the London Footsie. If that wasn't granted and the stock tanks tomorrow, well then things could get interesting. I imagine it was granted though.

Wait... you're in Canada. What are you worried about?

I'm pretty sure if US customers get screwed out their money, everyone in the world is going to get screwed out of their money. It's not like Neteller is going to seize all the US money, but yet still allow Brits to process funds through there. I'm not saying that the possiblility of losing money from Neteller is even .000001% likely, but your logic is sort of faulty.

First of all, Neteller isn't going to "seize money" from anyone. They are a legitimate, profitable business and would remain so even without dealing with the U.S. market. There is no reason to close up shop if they decide not to deal with U.S. customers any more. It's similar to how Party Poker didn't screw anyone out of the money in their accounts and is still open for business with the rest of the world.

But just for kicks, let's say that Neteller - a publicly traded company that makes gobs and gobs of money from their non-U.S. customers - decided they DID want to screw the world over and steal as much money as possible before disappearing to.... somewhere... (Good luck with that). Anyway, if they were going to do that, don't you think they'd empty your bank account first? You know, the one that you have linked to your Neteller account? I mean, why not?

It's ridiculous, and it's not going to happen. Your .000001% estimate is way high.

My take
 

I agree that NetTeller it is extremely unlikely to abscond with people’s money. It not like major companies don’t sometime practice theft and/or criminal acts as a matter of policy – Enron, anyone? – but I don’t think that is going to happen in this case.

What I do suspect will happen is that Netteller will pull out of the US market. They warn of this possibility in their latest filing

and that will likely have very chilling effect on online poker.

I’m very curious about ...
Whether it was NetTeller other activity that got these guys busted. To me “an Internet payment services company that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds from United States citizens to the owners of various Internet gambling companies located overseas” sure sound like NetTeller. Is any other service moving billions (with a ‘B’) of dollars?

What impact this will have on the WSOP/Poker Expo/pro endorsements? I can’t imagine any Stars/Full Tilt officers would be willing to set foot in the US right now. Where does leave Doyle and Full Title pros? Doyle especially seems vulnerable. And will the sites shell out major marketing dollars for their .net ‘schools’ at the Expo next year?

My point wasn't that money would get seized, it was that IF (even though the possibility is close to nil) it would, EVERYONE would be fucked. So, saying, "you are canadian, what are you worried about?" is pretty much the same as saying "you are a US citizen, what are you worried about?"

Don't forget about affiliates - the potential impact on guys like me.

Right now, they seem to be going after the obvious (BIG) targets to stop the flow of money.... but who knows what the future holds?

It really is a shame the U.S. is handling this all so poorly.

Well, I wasn't addressing the paranoid "what if they steal all your money" issue. I was addressing the "If they pull out of the U.S. market, having money there could cause a headache for U.S. customers who need to find a way to get it back - especially if they make everyone take a check and then you can't get your money from there (the check) back to your favorite poker sites easily" issue. This obviously wouldn't be a problem for non-U.S. citizens.

Bodog dropped Neteller as a deposit option. Still available to withdraw to neteller though.

i seriously cried when i read this.

SIKE!

Boozin it up already?

*Stolen from NWP*

" It has long been rumored that Neteller will stop serving U.S. customers in February. This rumor is starting to look more and more like truth, as Neteller has just banned Instacash transactions for U.S. players. While regular Neteller deposits and withdrawals are still available to Americans, it looks like just a matter of a short time before Neteller completely pulls out of the U.S. market. "

Well that will be a real pain in the ass if and when they do leave the US market.

Do you guys have no other deposit options?

If not, I would suggest all Americans on this board load up Stars and Full Tilt and clear out neteller if they do ban US players from using neteller.

Anyone use any of the other options like Central Coin?

T-12hrs.
 

rumor over at is that Neteller will stop transfering to merchants within 12 hrs, and stop withdrawls within two weeks. Probably Chicken Little, but we don't have to wait long to see if it is true.

Didn't see this linked yet, but wicked chops some of the about the arrests.

What's strange is that I can still use my US Bank debit card to make deposits at 'Stars and other sites.

Well, I'm loading up my poker accounts right now, just to be "safe" (stupid word, but you know what I mean). I'm not exactly sure how much to put where, so I'm spreading it around a bit:

Full Tilt - This is my primary site, but I already have 5 figures there, so that should be good (hopefully).
Bodog - Bah! Too late on this one, and I only have like $1200 on the site.
UB - Gonna top off to have a couple thousand there, even though I don't play there much.
Stars - I guess I'll put the rest here, even though I don't play there much any more either. Stars is always a good place to have money though.

Now I'm wishing I hadn't cashed out as much as I did from Neteller a couple of months ago, since getting that money back online, if I ever want to, could be a real problem. Guess I'll just need to not lose. :rolleyes:

Man, this is annoying. Keep in mind, most of my affiliate money flows through Neteller too... not that there is a lot of it, $wise, but there are a number of small transactions. Like every time I have a contest for TP, I transfer money into my TP Stars account from Neteller and so on.

I wonder what I should do with these > 3 million NETpoints I have. :eek:

One would hope that could get enough entries into the weekly money contest to win it.

Yeah, but if everyone dumps them all in there at the same time.... lame.

Timing was bad on this one. A chunk of my Moneymaker cash is between 'Stars and NETeller right now. I may put half of that on UB and FT and cash out the rest.

I have 1000 entires for the weekly, 400 for the bi-weekly, and 242 for the monthly.

Expected ROI: $0.

anyone want to PLEASE trade me some Stars $ for my FT $?

You can still use Neteller right now... but I'd hurry up.

If and when Neteller pulls out of the U.S. market, I wonder how they will determine who exactly is in the "U.S. market." Will it be based on your mailing address? Or your banking information?

Unless they determine it by the IP address you use to access Neteller, I would think anyone with a Canadian friend (address) or an offshore bank account may be able to get around the restrictions.

ya but it would take a few hours to transfer from FT to stars and i figured it would take too long.
and now that they pulled out,
is there anyone that is willing to give me stars $ for my Full tilt $?

I'll take 8k in Full Tilt money for 8k in Stars.

awesome.
id rather do 7 if thats cool tho.

BALLIN!!!!!

yeah sure. Just to be clear, full tilt name is aixelsyd ta lol. And I should send this to McNugent?