JD, Boobie > Me
 

I decided to give 3/6 NL a shot this week. I've played pretty high limit games (and very high tourney buy ins - duh) in the past, but in NL cash games, 2/4 is the highest I've ever gone.... well, for more than a few hands, anyway. :)

So.... things started off great. I finished my first session up $800ish. The next session was down $1200 or so, I think. I had had a couple of sessions where I was around even (+ or - 0 to $300), including last night's where I started off well, but then took a lot of annoying beats and finished down a bit.

Today has been UGLY. Fortunately, I've ALSO been playing 2/4 and winning there - up $500 today (correction - now $400 thanks to that 4 outer), but for 3/6, I'm down... let's see... carry the one... something like $900 or so.

My total for the month at 3/6 is -1400. I kow thats "only" 2.5 buy ins, but it's still frustrating... This is over 1600 hands played, which I also realize is a small sample. I think it's most frustrating because I'm down something like $2500-3000 from my peak.

All in all, I'd have to say my luck has been "average" to a little below average. It was a bit above to start, but has definitely been below recently:
FH runs into quads
Top two loses to gutshot
My straight gives my opponent a FH (2 outs)
Etc.

That said, I've made a couple of bad moves I didn't need to make... OVerall, I thought I was playing a little too passively, so a few times I've done what Boobie said and made a play when I sensed weakness. This has worked, but it's also cost me when they come back over the top. If I had to guess, I'd say I'm a bit down in those situations overall.

Note that I don't really have a question here, but comments are welcome, as is encouragement.

One thing I will say, and this surprised me a bit, but the 2/4 game seems a lot softer now that I've logged some hands at 3/6.

OK, I guess I do have a question: JD/Boobie/anyone - when you made this particular move (or other similar moves), did you lose at first, or were you winning off the bat?

I guess I know I can beat this game, but there are a couple of adjustments I need to make still. I've seen some plays here that I NEVER saw (other than me doing them) at 2/4... so I need to give me opponents a little more credit.

Anyway... hopefully I'll learn to crush/dominate these games like Boobie and JD someday. Maybe I should give Bodog a whirl. I hate how it doesn't support PT though. That's the main reason I've avoided it... well, that, their lack of 6 max games, and their sucky interface.

P.S. After rolling steadily (no huge pots) as I've been typing this, I'm now up > $600 in my 2/4 game. At least that's going well.

One thing I want to add... IMO, the biggest difference between 2/4 and 3/6 (and this is probably true for any level) is there are significantly less BAD players. The good players are better too, I assume, but the biggest difference I see is less fish.

Oh... and another thing: When I play 2/4, sure I see some good players, but no one that I think is DEFINITELY better than me. At 3/6, I've spotted a few of those guys. The biggest difference between how they play and how I play is that they are much more aggressive (and I'm pretty aggressive). They reraise more often preflop, mainly. I guess I need to work on that.

Boobie/JD - I know it depends, but whjat is your typical reraising range against:
1. Soft (Passive) Tables
2. Average Tables
3. Tables with at least one or two really aggressive guys

From my experience, I didn't notice as much of a difference between 2/4 and 3/6 as you seem to... both felt like the same game to me, just with slightly larger bets. The reason for this feel is from a 1/2 to a 2/4 game everything doubles in essence. Standard raises of (we'll just say 4x BB) $8 become $16. Preflop CBs of $10 become $20 etc. When you move to 3/6 things don't double, they just bump up a little bit, so it doesn't feel as if you've really moved up. I think aggression is rewarded in both games. When I was on a hot streak, a minimum of one time per session (per table) I'd limp UTG with a medium strength hand, which should clearly be folded UTG (A8s, 98s 44 KTs etc) and then limp reraise once someone put in a raise. If I was called, I'd pound the flop. Not once was I ever 'caught' making this play (this is full tables btw and used only 1x per session). Players are more aggressive, but they are also more likely to fold to your aggression when you have control over the pot not them, so you can use this to your advantage, where in the lower limits players may call with TP on the flop despite oyur preflop action for example.

The thing is I felt this held true for both 2/4 and 3/6, both games had their share of fish, maybe 2/4 had a few more, but I thought the good players were equally as good and I didn't see a huge difference in the aggression level

Not really answering too much, just rambling for whatever its worth

When I first started playing 3/6, I crushed it. This was mostly at Bodog, so that is not saying much. Playing at Party and Full Tilt is far, far more aggressive than Bodog and is more difficult because of this. Although there are some aggressive players at Bodog, a lot of them just spew chips in spots that don't really make any sense.

I've played some Party 5/10, and it plays way bigger than Bodog with everyone reraising preflop, squeezing, and generally just puts me in spots that I am uncomfortable with. The variance in that game is a little too much for me to handle right now, so I'm just sticking to Bodog 3/6 6max until Bodog adds 5/10 shorthanded tables (which support says they will add shortly).

As for my reraising range, it is mostly dependent upon what I think of the player(s) and what the others think of me. If he is a huge calling station who can't fold top pair, I'll stick to a tight reraising range. If I think he can fold a weak overpair and I haven't been doing much, I'll reraise him relentlessly (any pair, lots of suited connectors, etc.) I also don't like to reraise with dominated hands like Ax since it puts me in a really tough spot if I hit my hand postflop, so it's mostly just low cards that aren't dominated or good hands.

Agreed 100%, particularly the bold

I have never really played 2/4 so I'm not the best person to comment on the difference between levels but I'm assuming you have probably just found yourself up against some tough tables / opponents at 3/6. At Full Tilt there is plenty of bad players mixed in amongst some very good ones. I think table selection is just as important as anything else (once you get to be a competent player). If you are finding yourself at tables where you are uncomfortable or can't spot a weak player then you should probably look for another table.

TP, who cares about Poker Tracker. just switch to Bodog.
they are Bad.

and i dn i re-raise mainly only with good hands when its 6 person or higher, obviously that changes when im down to 2 or 3 ppl, where ill raise and re-raise with seriously anything depending on the opponent.

and i have never switched to a new limit and start off killing it. i always lose at first, not so much b/c of the better players, but b/c i start playin dumb thinkin im playin with alot more $. eventually i get used to it.

also, realize theres a huge diff between tournies and cash games. i have no idea why, but i feel like u might play cash games pretty similiar to the way u play tournies.

First, welcome to the forum!

. Just kidding, of course. LowKey, IMO, is one of the top 3/6 players I've played with. To give you an idea, my PT stats have him at +$1700 through 531 hands (27 BB/100). I'm sure that's somewhat inflated, but still... He plays 27/23 vs. my 34/17. That alone is a very telling difference, and one that I should probably adjust (JD and Boobie have numbers closer to his as well, I think).

Anyhoo, you make a good point about table selection, and that is STILL something I don't do well enough. I'm easily able to spot the weak player(s) at my table, but I'm not sure I'm choosing the best tables in the first place. At Full Tilt, the way I've been picking is looking through them and finding the tables with the shortest stacks - tables where 2-3 guys are sitting with half a buy in or so. I figure that screams weakness, so I target them. I haven't done any extensive datamining or that sort of thing, like you can do so much more easily on Party. Anyway, any other advice for table selection?

That's not it. I definitely play them a lot differently. But you're right in that I'm a much stronger tourney player than a cash game player.......... right now, anyway. I'm working on it.

wow i do the exact opposite. i look for the bigger stacks unless i know them to be very good. i never want to sit at a table with a bunch of short stacks.

EDIT: we should probably all play 1 3/6 table and make each other better. :). seriously - we could even say how much one person wins, they actually only get 1/2 of or sumthin. ya know?

That's not a bad idea at all. We could set up a Private table on Party and go all out against each other. Then in the end, the winner(s) could transfer back half of their winnings to the loser(s) to keep it friendlier.

Even without doing a save like that, we should all play together (at these limits). This would definitely be -EV for me though without the save, unless of course you factor in how much this could improve my game against other people. :thumbsup:

I'd like to have at least 5 players to do this though... otherwise, it's a different game anyway.

me u boobie lowkey and mayhem?

I'll be a sixth if needed, if it could be done on a different site beside party

Lowkey and JD own me, but I'd be up for a private game.

Yeah, and all three of you own me. Zy only has me by a little bit :)

The reason I suggested Party is because we could get a private table going there, but we could do it elsewhere on a non-private table. If we all join a new table right away, we should fill it up.

Man, LowKey is gonna love the goldmind that is us donkeys!

Honestly, I'll be interested to see how this plays out, because playing each other is going to be a lot different than playing the average table, ya know?

it will be nothing like playin an avg. table. it will be weird.

Then maybe it's not the best idea. Maybe I should just hop on AIM and rail you for an hour or two some night.

Id be in for this.

well it will def. make all of us better i would think. i mean being too good for ur opponents cant be a bad thing, if u understand that ur better than them.

Agreed if you play them enough to win back the money they donk off of you.

Well, tonight's the TP FF draft.... maybe after that, or else we could pick a time in advance and make sure everyone can make it.

I believe the private game would be more fun with 2/4-3/6 NL regular, eejit101.

k
 

will you lend him the money for it?

If he were to sit down $500+ of his own money, I'd toss him $50 to play until the game breaks up (or he breaks). If the others would agree to do the same, it's practically a can't lose deal for him!

Why would a player who turns an 86% ROI at SNGs waste his time with puny cash games? Idiut.

yeah, funny, no my ROI is now more like 10% now or something gay.


huh? Id play in this, in about a weeks time. How would that be a no lose deal when i have $500+, and i dont get your $50 thing

So, what's the buy-in for one of those 3-6 dandies?

Wait, wait ... "IF YA HAVE TO ASK HOW MUCH THE GAS COSTS, YA PROBABLY CAN'T AFFORD THE CAR."

BOOM.

I'll see you clowns in about a year. That's one of my goals in the next 365 days.

You're a moron.

so explain that as you would to a moron

You're a moron for:

1. Thinking you'll be bankrolled to play in a 3/6 NL game in one week.
2. Thinking you'll have $500 online in one week.
3. Thinking you should play in a game against JD, Boobie, Mayhem, Zy, LowKey and myself.
4. For not understanding what I was saying, which was:

If you were willing to pony up $500 to play in that game with us (and actually play - not just post and fold), I'd be willing to boost your stack $50 right off the bat, and I'm sure the other 5 players would as well.

But hell, if you're willing to play in it for free, that's even better.

Id be up for a go with you guys.New guy = free money. I really need to get my game straight and the little golden parachute would be nice .So if there is room im in.LMK

It might be good fun. I'd rather Full Tilt. I get rakeback there and assume some of you others do as well.

eejit
 

I have tried to give you the benifit of the doubt through this whole thing, but if your even remotley concidering playing in a game with TP, lowkey, boobie and JD you are a complete moron. I would never sit at that table for those stakes with those guys that would be totally -ev for me and I know it would be for you.

now if they were to drop down to say .10/.25 NL things would be way different. Im guessing you were just kidding by saying you would sit with them, thats the only logical explanation. I mean they are all sitting with eachother to learn and they are all basicly on same level of play, some a little higher and lower but in general they are around the same ballpark, you on the other hand are not even in the same sport let alone the ballpark......kiddie game down the street!

I suppose this thread has kinda turned into my personal "goals" thingee for the month (like JD and Boobie's 90 and 60k nonsense), so I'll update you all.

Last night, at the advice of Penguinfan after he read this thread, I decided to sign up for and see what they have to offer. Yes, that is my referral ID you see in that link there... I don't think I get anything for the referral, but whatever (if there is something, Chip should know, since I signed up under him (he asked first, Penguin)).

Anyway, the site has tons of stuff, but for me, it's all about the videos. I browsed through their selection last night and went on a downloading rampage. The videos have a license key, so as best I can tell, you HAVE to view them in Windown Media Player :mad: and you HAVE to be online (to get connected to grab the license. :mad: That kinda sucks.... but I don't blame them of course. I just wish I could view them with a better media player than WMP. Yuck. Once you get the license (by signing in after you try to play the video), it seems as if you can then view them offline - on that computer, anyway. I browsed their site and it sounds like the licenses are good for 14 days, so I guess you need to stay a member for long term repeat viewing. Makes sense.

Anyway, I've watched 4 videos so far - two on that I kinda had running in the background while I was doing other stuff (and yes, I did learn a number of very cool things - that program ROCKS), and two on EXACTLY the game I have been trying to master lately - 6 max NL (3/6 and 5/10). I'm not even kidding when I tell you that these videos have already paid for themselves. In fact, I'm guessing 15 minutes in to the first Green Plastic video, I felt like I had gotten my money's worth.

Yes, I KNEW that I was being too loose in the SB and BB, but I didn't know why. Now I do. And yes, I suspected I wasn't being aggressive enough in Late Position with junk and that I was overvaluing suited connectors after a raise, but now I get it - Well, I'm getting there anyway. I'm not saying this has turned me into a better player overnight or anything, but I think it may have given me the push I need, and I'm going to make watching a video or two per day part of my routine.

So, back to my goals: It's time for me to get serious about poker. I've been a winning player for 3+ years now, but I still don't play enough or take it seriously enough to REALLY be getting good (as in "great"). I'm going to the Borgata next week, so I should probably be focusing on tourney play, but I'm pretty comfortable with my tourney game right now, so for now, I'm going to focus on cash games. I want to be dominating them like JD and Boobie within a few months... and I'm hoping these videos are what I need to give me that little boost... the small (?) tweak to my game that I need.

So far so good.

at what level do you think these lessons become applicable? I am very interested in this, but at low levels I am not sure it would be worth it. The games down here are a completely different beast, what do you think?

browsing
 

from browsing site it seems like they have videos of all levels. I plan on getting this eventully also thanks tp.

They have videos for different levels. I haven't explored the smaller stuff or ANY of the tourney/SNG play things, but I imagine those especially would be valuable to all tourney players, regardless of the buy ins you are used to.

As for the lower limit stuff, I'm thinking these would still be a big help, but you need to know the fundamentals first. You need to at least be aware of things like hand strength, flop texture, pot odds, POSITION, and so on. But I'm sure you're well past that.

Edit: You can actually buy individual videos if you want (prices range from $5ish to $10ish) without becoming a member. Maybe buy one that suits you and see if you like it before signing up.

hey
 

did you pay the membership plus sign up fee? it seems like much better deal then the $4.99 per video. so it would be $60 to get it then $20 a month....from the amount of videos I see in archive seems like decent deal.

With the $50 set up fee, it's $70 for the first month and then $20 per month after that.

I was only suggesting paying the $5-$10 for a video or two if you weren't sure how helpful they would be to you. As soon as I saw the list of videos, I knew there were quite a few I wanted to see (I downloaded 31 last night), so I just signed up.

sounds like a great site, i just had a browse, looks good, very good.

And the $3/$6 thing, make it a regular game for you all, and i will join one, no moron jokes, its +EV for me all round i reckon cos...

1. TP "will" give me $50 for sitting, as may others, which i doubt but worth a go.
2. I have a minimal chance of winning something, or breaking even, but still a chance.
3. i might lose some money, but in theory, i might learn ALOT playing with those guys, seeing the mucked hands and showdowns e.t.c, i might learn enough there to win back wwhat i lose in the long run.

if you want to play and get better why not ask those players to play a lower limit with you to improve instead of risking alot of money to get better. $500 for a lesson really dosent seem very wise to me but hey its your money.

true, but its a good challenge

I guess I still cant see how much could be gained by this, but since everyone seems to be reacting very favorably about it, Im thinkin about givin it a look.

This idea (getting a video or two) sounds good.... so now to the next part.

After you've viewed a decent sample of video, which one or two would be the ones you think you've learned the most from and why. Which one or two would you reccomend I check out to determine what I think about this.

Also can you elabroate on exactly what you learned (like what do you mean you learned why you're too loose from the SB and BB and why you're not aggro enough in LP)

Green Plastic is definately the best one on there.

Videos that don't cost nuthin:

And worth every penny? :D

Twice that much.

Well damn son, that's 100% +EV right there!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but eejit could upload videos of him playing on there, right?

Seriously, do you find many of them beneficial? Are the players explaining why they are doing what they are doing (teaching) or are they posting them so people can critique their own games?

I can't recommend specific videos yet. I'd say pick the one that sounds like the limit you play, etc. And yes, Green Plastic is impressive so far.

And it's not so much that I've learned WHY I'm too lose from the SB, but I suspected I was and now that I've seen how he plays from there (and he's better than me, so I can assume he's right and I'm wrong), I can see the differences. I can see the hands he throws away that I would have called with because of the great pot odds. I understand that 9:1 isn't as great as it seems when you have to play junk out of position against multiple opponents. This was literally an instant leak in my game plugged, just like that.

As for the aggression thing... now that I've seen it work so well, I'm finally stepping up and reraising with a much wider range of hands preflop than I used to. And I like it. It cost me a bundle when I flopped a set of Ts earlier tonight (as opposed to if I had played for a smaller pot), but that comes with the territory. Most of the time, I'll win bigger pots.

Maybe you'd watch these and roll your eyes and learn nothing. But I doubt it. They are well done.