Does this now confirm Ivey as the no1 player in the world.
 

I read this article on another site, and have permission to publish on the forum. can anyone here apart from TP imagine playing for such high stakes and imagine losing so much, does the fact that Ivey was backed change the way he played perhaps taking some chances that paid off. I would love to have some hand histories from this match.
The amounts are staggering and even 16million loss to a billionaire must hurt, perhaps not the wallet but deffinatley the ego.



Andy Beal is back at Wynn Las Vegas, and he is back playing the 'Corporation'. This time, the Corp has dusted off their cleanup hitter, and put Phil Ivey into the match with Beal.

Beal's journeys to Wynn over the last couple weeks have been the stuff of legend. Over the course of five or six days of play, Beal managed to win the Corp's initial stake of $10 million.

Reports last week indicated Beal would only come back if the Corp reloaded, and raised the stakes in the game. In fact, the stakes for this match were lowered to 'only' $30,000/$60,000, and play resumed on Tuesday morning. The prevailing speculation is that the new stakes were agreed upon once it was clear that it was Ivey that Beal would be playing.

After two days of play, Ivey has built a sizeable lead. Although reports are varied on the exact amount, all sources seem to indicate Ivey is in the lead at this point to the tune of over $6 million dollars, or about 100-110 big bets.

This is the match poker fans have been waiting for, since the reformation of the Corporation. Ivey is widely considered one of, if not the best player in the world today. This matchup has great marquee value, and if it were televised, it would draw huge ratings.

But, that's one thing that's been nice about these matches. It's not about TV, it's not about logos, or image rights, or anything else. These matches are about poker. High stakes poker.

Reportedly, this match will continue today, and Ivey is supposed to be back in the hot seat. There are rumors of the stakes going back up to the previous $50,000/$100,000 level for today's play. Good stuff, gentlemen....Shuffle up, and deal.

Then finally...

What an odyssey. Over the last three plus weeks, the story of a billionaire, and his fascination with poker has enthralled the poker world. Last night at Wynn card room, this story came to an end....at least for now.

Andy Beal got back in his plane, and flew back to Dallas after a three-day match with Phil Ivey that left Beal down some 16 million dollars. The stakes were raised yesterday, and the players played at the originally agreed upon $50,000/$100,000 limits. Ivey went on a massive heater, and won back the Corp's original stake they had lost in prior sessions. A $10 million swing...in one day. The previous two days had seen Ivey up about six and a half million dollars. Something tells me there will be some serious 'Corporate' parties around Las Vegas over the next two days. Reserve your tables at Tao, or Light now.

I'm not really sure what is left for Phil Ivey to accomplish in the poker world. As if it wasn't completely cemented prior to this, I think its safe to say Phil is playing the best poker of anyone on the planet right now. I guess Ivey has to start working on taking everyone's money, as their isn't much left to accomplish in the way of highly publicized cash games, or tournaments

Beal's departure from poker may be permanent, or it may be temporary. He reportedly left Wynn last night, and said that he was through with poker. He had announced this after the first session, but it was quickly learned that he was not done with poker, as he was back at Wynn the next morning. I'm going to guess that he won't be back at Wynn tomorrow, but I'm not convinced we've seen the last of Andy Beal.

Men like Beal are driven by challenges. The story of Beal's play over the last few weeks reminds me of the story of another billionaire. Howard Hughes became obsessed with golf for a period of time in his twenties. Hughes got to the point that he beat nearly everyone at his club, the Wilshire Country Club. When a match with legend Bobby Jones became available, Hughes jumped at the chance. After weeks of preparation by Hughes, Jones beat Hughes handily. Legend has it Hughes left his clubs next to the 18th green after the match, and never played golf again. Will that be the fate of Andy Beal? He has played the best in the world, and held his own, until he ran into the 'Phil Ivey experience'. Clearly, Beal can play, and it would be a shame if he left his lucky card marker at Wynn Las Vegas yesterday, never to return.

Without doubt he's one of the top five world class players in action today. Professionals are known to be intensely confident in themselves, but the other pros FEAR him.

He was fun to rail in AC.

Does anyone have any more info on "The Corporation?" I'm curious who is involved and what type of arrangement they have.

That's insane... and ya I think Phil is def. one of the best players in the world, he's my favorite player.

I don't really get the whole "Corp" thing tho - is it like a team ?

and why would phil ivey have a backer ?

i searched for names of the so called corporation and could only get,,“The Corporation” — a team of professional poker players — who aggregated their $10 million and matched it against his $20 million in a series of private sessions.

Sounds like a good way for the best pros to invest.

The Corporation.

I like how the name is so generically intimidating.

The more I read into this match the more outstanding I find the game, to actually lose 16million is insane,surely sitting at a tbl with this amount is not playing poker in a sence of a game. It sounds like a very rich person who wants to be known as something he really is not, yes he may be a good player but I would say this is due to his wealth and not skill level.

What would winning a tournament mean to him, I dont know but I would wager that playing against some of the best pros has thought him a lesson that skill is indeed whats needed and not just money and plenty of it.

I suppose they could not televise this match as the stakes are just that little to high between 2 players that it would do more damage for the game of poker than good.

Jennifer Harman, Todd Brunson, David Gray, and Ted Forrest were the other corporation players so I would assume that they are the fellow investors.

I can see Andy Beal now sitting infront of his computer playing in a $100 rebuy and betting allin on any 2 cards over and over again, I am glad he was beaten and even gladder if there is such a word by a real poker pro.

The Corporation
 

The line-up varies - it depends on which pros are available and have the roll to contribute. If you guys haven't already read it, there is a fantastic entire book about Beal vs. the pros.

Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King, The : Inside the Richest Poker Game of All Time


In addition to being about a fascinating subject, it is very well written and researched.

david grey on the right.

Yes, you should. Chip Reece and David Grey.

/me hangs head in shame.

At least I know what the important people look like: Evelyn, Clonie, Isabelle, Jennifer, the other Jennifer, etc. :D

LOL... nh.

She's no superstar, but I hope you know Erin Ness too. She's freaking gorgeous. After chatting with her for about 5 minutes at the WSOP this year, later in the day, I randomly realized that not only did I not hit on her, but I didn't even flirt with her. At all.

/me REALLY hangs head in shame.

Mark my words: I won't be making that mistake again if I run into her this year.

Day-ammm...I know her NOW!!! :D I'm not sure why I'd never heard of before tonight.

Yes, you really SHOULD hang your head in shame if you didn't even flirt with her. Of course, that MAY work in your favour if you run into this year. Maybe she'll remember you BECAUSE you didn't even flirt with her, and that will have scored points in her book!

That probably holds true for most of the beautiful female players. How many of us fanboys probably drool all over them, acting the big shot, whatever. Sure, we'll talk poker with them but the entire time we're simply picturing what her clothes will look like in a pile beside our bed. :p

The real attractive guys are the ones that treat them with respect, as a human and worthy opponent at the tables. IF a connection comes after that, all the better!

Hell - this is most likely what a LOT of female celebs from ANY field look for - well, except for the shallow Hollywood bitches.

If Sandra Bullock can fall for Jesse James, we've all got hope!

Erin...

Of course, I have pics of here that *I* took too, but I'm too lazy to go through them all and post them. I know. I suck.

Maybe someday............

Andy Beal is actually a brilliant man. Do a search on google for the "Beal Conjecture" and you'll see he has a background in mathematics. Trust me, he's not just a rich guy who likes to throw money around at a card table.

This point you make is not contested by me at all, but does his brillance automatically qualify him to assume he is a brillant pro poker player..?.

As for a rich man throwing his money around a poker table. $16.5 million, says to me NO, hes not that brillant after all.

I wish I could lose 0.05% of my money playing against the best players in the world headsup.

Are you kidding? He was up a shitload against "the corporation" after a series of matches that, although the conditions were mutually agreed to, were definitely skewed in favor of the pros. At the stakes they are playing, IMO, the amount he was up and now the amount he was down are all well within the expected "swings" of HU. So mathematically it is still a draw.

Look, I hate the rich more than most, but Andy Beal is a self-made billionaire and he solved a 450 year old mathematical problem in his spare time, hence the "Beal Conjecture". He puts his money into getting kids into math and science. He took on a group of the best poker players in the world and until Ivey came and kicked his ass he was up. Give the man the props he deserves.

I assume the poker pros "the corporation" and the organisers of this event were all in favor of it not being televised due to the impact it could have on the growing popularity of poker.

The common person sitting at home who watch poker on television always seem to select and root for the player who has come from nowere, the guy who won a place for a few dollars and then takes home a few $100,000.

This is was makes poker so popular, the thought that one day it could be you. Now noway am I saying that Andy Beal shouldnt play against these people, but it shows that money can buy you anything wether it be a game against the best or going into space.

and I suppose paying 16million to play against Phil Ivey is acceptable to some I think I may wait until I win a $3 satalite, hey it happened to C Moneymaker.

We have this kind of buying into success over in the UK at the moment in other sports, were very rich Russian billionairs are buying football teams and the best players for huge amounts of cash.

It just seems wrong to me that this happens, but I have to accept and sometimes applaud the cost of what trying to by success is costing some then only to find out that the $3 players or low finance clubs have got the required skill they never could afford to buy.

Mr Beal may be a great man in his own field he may help deprived kids and have solved mathamatical problems, but I am really glad he was beaten even if the amount is so small to him that it wont affect his life but it will affect his ego and help in the promotion of poker which when all said and done is a great game that everyone can play but only a small percentage are truley great my hat goes off to Phil Ivey well done.

Now if you want to start an Abramovich bashing thread, I am all in favor :D I don't care how much I love Lampard and Makelele, screw Roman!

And good luck against Uruguay.

I'm having trouble following some of the points being made in this thread, mostly by jimmym. What's the problem with ome guy challenging some top pros to some high stakes poker? If he was only worth 1 million, would it be ok for him to play $%0/$100 with them and lose $16,000? I don't understand where all the hate comes from just because the stakes were higher.

As for it being televised, I don't get that at all. Yes, these were big stakes so I'm sure a lot of people would like to have watched, but what does this have to do with television? That's like saying it's a shame Zybomb's game wasn't on tv the other night or why isn't the big game always televised? Um....... maybe because they are just a couple of the millions of cash games that go on all the time...?

I understand this story being newsworthy because of the amount of money in play, but I don't understand anyone's objections to the game.

I just find the amount abit too much, I like the idea of a player winning millions in a tournament were he has won through a field of players, but a game were a player stands to lose $20 million to me is excesive greed.
If he wanted to prove he was the best player then there is the WSOP but I personally think this guy tried to buy the poker title of " best player ".

That's ridiculous. Winning the WSOP doesn't make you the best player in the world. Not even close these days.

He wanted to show that he could play with the big boys. If he offered to play $30/60 with them, they would have laughed. These stakes show he was serious, and ensure they he would get their absolute best game.

Actually, what he tried to do was take the best poker players in the world out of their comfort zone. That's why the corporation was formed, neither player on their own had a bankroll sufficient to withstand the swings of 50k/100k HU limit poker. Beal has that bankroll.

His theory was that the pros acting outside their comfort zones would play less than ideal poker, in effect evening the matchup. He admitted the pros were more skilled than he. But the increased stakes, combined with the variance of HU poker quite effectively evens the playing field.

Frankly, it's an experiment in poker only he and perhaps a few others could ever make.

Sorry but we will have to agree to differ on this one, the stakes were high and offcourse meant he was going to get Iveys best game but I feel his motive was not financial but to declare himself one of the best poker players ever.
Winning the wsop as you say doesnt make you the best player ever but it does carry a title that is sort after by many and achieved by few, something money cant buy.

On another note after a year and abit as a forum member its nice for me to post a thread that lasts longer than a day....I must be learning something from here.

Odd thread
 

I'm disagreeing with much of this. Poker is about money and competition. You win as much as you can, playing at whatever stakes are the most profitable for you. I don’t consider that to be greedy, but it is core to the game.

It seems both the Corporation and Beal benefited from their arrangement – Beal got a chance to test himself against the best in the world, the Corp got a chance to make a very large amount of money.

Beal is far from a publicity hound. Nothing in his character suggests he wants to flaunt a title he could buy. It's about the borderline obsessive need to challenge himself.

Again, another recommendation for the entire book dedicated to this game --

The Professor, the Banker, and the Suicide King : Inside the Richest Poker Game of All Time

I totally disagree too. Money is all relative - just because 50k/100k is alot to most everyone on the planet doesnt mean its alot to Mr. Beal
He's actually playing within his bankroll - I don't see how thats either greedy or trying to by himself title of "best player."

Wow, that is very big stakes. Phil Ivey has got to be the best poker player ever. Regarding the WSOP Winner , it takes skill and luck to win a poker toureny. They might not be the best but they have to be pretty good to win it.

That's a book I've been meaning to pick up, but haven't yet for whatever reason... Maybe because of the stack of yet unread poker books I already have.

I'm with you, btw.... if it was about publicity, this WOULD be televised. But it's not. We know about it because we're in the poker community, but I bet the average Joe on the street doesn't even know how Andt Beal is, let alone that this game was going on.

On my reading this thread for the 12th time today (did I mention how productive I am at my dayjob?) I realized what bothers me. Jimmym, it doesn't jive if you claim that Phil Ivey is the confirmed best player in the world due to his victory over Andy Beal, whilst calling Andy Beal out as a pretender.

That is right, jive and whilst used in the same sentence.

Wow. VERY good point. Can't believe I missed that.

Melioris, I hold my hands up to you, how two-faced could my thread title be followed on be me doing what you have picked up on, and your right It is wrong for me to slate one player because of his wealth and personal ego to play against the best and then praise and acclaim another player as the best for beating this person, well spotted and rightly mentioned by yourself.

After further research into this game, I came across a letter published by Andy Beal after his first meeting with the pros and reading through it I came to my own conclusion that the guy is really mad that he wasnt praised for his win and rightly so.

From The Desk Of Andy Beal

Dallas, Texas
Date: September 2004

To: Doyle Brunson, Chip Reese, Todd Brunson, Jennifer Harman, Howard Lederer, Chau Giang, Barry Greenstein, Ted Forrest, Gus Hansen, Lee Salem, John Hennigan, Ming La, Lyle Berman, Phil Ivey, Johnny Chan, Hamid Dastmalchi

I recently read a story in the New York Daily News that is an unfair mischaracterization of my recent poker experience in the "Big Game" played at Bellagio.

No mention was made that I won more than $10 million in the largest game ever played, $100,000-$200,000 limit hold'em, on May 12 and 13, 2004. No mention was made of the fact that most of the above-mentioned professional players have substantial overall individual net losses after having played many hours against me. I concede that I am a net overall loser in the Bellagio games, although the extent of my losses is often exaggerated and mischaracterized.

These stories have become like fishermen's tales, in which the fish is always getting bigger every time the story is told. I spent four years learning the game from the best. Does it surprise anyone that I was an overall net loser during that period? Now, you want to reduce the stakes and refuse to continue to play at the previous betting limits. Does it surprise anyone that I have little interest in traveling to play in smaller games? My interest has always been the intellectual challenge of competing with the best, in games in which the amount bet is material to the people involved. I have played the best in the largest game ever played, and I won. I had a great time and a wonderful experience, but I have little interest in continuing to play the game, because of the time commitment and travel required to maintain excellence.

Call me naïve (I've been called worse), but I believe that I am the favorite in a heads-up limit high-stakes game against most of you. For the record, I challenge you to put up or shut up about your "professional play." Come to Dallas and play me for four hours a day and I will play until one of us runs out of money or cries uncle. If your play is so great and your wins have been as large as you claim, you should have plenty of bankroll and be jumping at the chance to come and play another $100,000-$200,000 game and win a lot more money. I should add that you can bring your own independent dealers and your own cards, and can play in a different location of your choice every day if you wish. You should provide a slate of any six or more of the above players and I will pick from your slate who plays. Observers should be free to attend in order to record exactly what happens at this game, so it won't turn into another fisherman's story.

My money says you will decline, and that says it all. If you accept, the resulting game will say it all. Either way, I will get to stop reading fishermen's stories.

Andy Beal..

I came across this when earlier this month Andy lost $3m to the corporation.

My take on all of this is that Andy Beal will sit back and think long and hard about his poker game. Once convinced that he has as much ability as his opponents, he 'll analyze what went wrong. Then he’ll tinker with his game in order to improve it.

And while he’s doing that, he’ll probably take things one step further by thinking about how the Corporation will adjust to any changes he makes. By doing that, he'll have a trick or two at his disposal, ready to be pulled out of his bag, once he’s back in the game and sees Corporation players beginning to change their style based on whatever stylistic adjustments Beal made during his hiatus.

While Andy Beal may tire of poker someday, I don’t expect him to give it up now — on the heels of a loss — particularly one where he was ahead for much of the match. If he gives up poker it will be after a win, when he feels vindicated and can walk away with his head held high.

It may be a year or so before we see another Beal vs. the Corporation big money poker showdown, but we will see it. At least that’s my prediction.

by Lou Krieger

5 days after Lou wrote this Andy came back to face Ivey and lost a further $13.5million, my feelings about this challenge "Beal v the corporation" will probably continue but in a strange twist in my mind I feel that the poker pros are waiting to pounce setting this guy up and using him as a nice pay day and I am starting to root for Andy Beal to win.

It may not be televised live but one day this will be made into a film and on a final note Andy Beal is also trying to build a rocket so the public can take flights into space and funding this all himself, now who said money cant buy you everything you desire.