Hsp $500k
 

So, we see Jamie Gold, who wants to be known as "the greatest bluffer in the game" learn that you can't bluff a billionaire. :donkey

We get to see Gabe Kaplan, in the space of about 2 minutes, tell us we'll see real fireworks on the river becauser Doyle will call (holding 3rd nut flush) Gold's big turn raise (with 4th nut flush), then be shocked when Doyle folds to the raise, and then without even missing a beat explain why it made sense that Doyle folded (old-school play vs. new-school player). :confused:

We get to see play that can only be described as "scared money" - Antonius barely getting involved, Sammy playing ultra-tight (well, for Sammy), and Antonio being terrified to call a medium-sized river bet holding a set of aces with the only possible big hand (IIRC) being a back door flush.

Methinks that except for Laliberte and possibly Gold, they're all being staked for this game. :twocents:

Preview from next week's episode (hopefully unedited):

Jamie Gold - "I'm all in."
Patrick Antonius (instantly) - "I call."

Oh, that's some good stuff right there!

:rolleyes: We can only hope. ;)

Watch that not even be from the same hand.:rolleyes:

I would so love to see Gold get busted. Maybe he's a good guy, but they sure do portray him as being the most annoying person on the planet.

I'm so tired of hearing about how he wants to be the greatest bluffer.

Oh I guarantee its going to be two different hands.Thats how they do it in the editing world!!Watch:mad:

My favorite part of HSP is going to commercial after every hand :(

I love the show, but wish there were more hands to see!

Wow
 

Well, it was unedited, and if you haven't seen it, it was indeed a "wow" moment.

There's a math discussion regarding Antonius' decision, but I'll wait to introduce that as it would be a spoiler.

"Driving Miss Raisey Daisy"....lol

WOW moment is right. :eek:

Off to PokerTube I go!!!

(Thanks for the reminder)

O

M

G


I'll leave it at that for now... don't want to spoil it for anyone. But, WOW!

Watching it now since everyone is talking about it. Definitely don't want any spoilers.

3 times? Where the hell did that come from?

One of them is an idiot for either suggesting it or accepting it. I am not sure which just yet.

Why? I'd prefer 3 over 2 for a pot that size, personally. That way, at least someone "wins."

I'll admit, I have never been in this situation, but I don't see why Antonius would say 'okay' to this. 3 would be good for Gold since he needs the dough to buy new underpants after Antonius called. (regardless of the results)

You understand that the number of times you run the board (the river card, in this case) doesn't change th EV of the situation, right? Whether they run it once, twice, or 15 times, the long term EV os the situation remains exactly the same. All running it more than once does is lower the short term variance by basically forcing the monetary results of the hand to be slightly closer to the actual equity each player has in the pot.

I would think the results of the running it three times alone would answer your question as to why Antonius would say OK.

if anyone is reading this thread then they shouldn't worry about spoilers. That hand was incredible. Wow. I was actually feeling sorry for JG when the K came. TP, your boy-toy handled the soul sucking defeat well.

But by far the best part of the show was Doyle getting grumpy at the end and wanting the game to move faster. He is such a grumpy old man, I love it. And then Gabe riffing that Doyle was missing "Big Valley". I laughed my ass off at that. That show was awesome and I can totally see DB watching it.

Running it more than once reduces variance, not EV, since in effect, it is akin to playing the same hand 3 times. The more often you run the hand the closer the immediate result comes to the actual EV. While PA (prior to the running of the rivers) would have probably preffered to only see one or two rivers, he yields to Golds suggestion for the same reason you don't tap the glass. He wants to keep the fish happy and playing, and if running it 3 times accomplishes that, then PA is happy to oblige as he believes he will take Gold's money in the long run.

Also, PA's demeanor after the hand was beyond awesome. That in and of itself tells me he has what it takes to be the best in the world.

My John Mclaughlin impersonation
 

Question: were they deep enough for JG to call the turn bet assuming implied odds and if so, does he get paid off when the river pairs the board?

The first half of your first paragraph says pretty much exactly what I said, using slightly different words. I disagree with your assessment that PA agreed to run it three times to keep Gold happy though.

A. Who cares if Gold is happy? This is tv, and you know he's not leaving. He need to act like a fearless donkey and try to be the best bluffer in the world, remember?

B. This is about as good of an opportunity as you are ever (literally) going to get to break Gold (he's not going to be playing for nearly 800k pots on a regular basis - that figure likely represents 1/3 to 1/2 of Gold's roll), so why not just go for it now? If anything, your logic is backwards - he should be ok with running it once and risking the chance of Gold scooping the whole pot if he knows he'll have time to take it back from him later.

PA agreed to run it three times for the simple reason that it reduces variance. Even though the largest pot ever shown on HSP may not be the biggest he's ever played for, it's still a lot of money, and the more times you run it, the closer your share of the pot will be to your expected value - 77% or whatever it was in this case.

Shit, if that were me, I'd run it with every last card in the deck if Gold wanted to. Why not? Sure, I'll plit the pot 77/23 with him right now.

If I'm Gold, I smooth call there for sure. By making that huge overbet shove, you fold out everything you beat (except for maybe a lower set) and get called by ONLY AJ. If he called, he certainly could have gotten SOME amount of money out of Antonius when the board paired, or lost a lot less if it didn't.

I like the 3 times in this case since even if JG gets lucky he is likely only doing it once out of 2 OR 3 runs. If you run it twice you run a greater risk of not making anything off of the nuts in this case (two lucky cards or one lucky card by JG, while making PA have to get lucky to make a profit by holding up TWICE). By running it three times, you make JG have to hit twice to take more than 1/2 the pot from you and hit THREE times to scoop almost assuring you at least something out of the pot.

I see the run it twice making more sense in a coinflip. My first thought when I saw this was why the hell would he want to run it more than once anyway, but for that much money you don't want to see a sick beat card come off for the whole pot.

The more I think about this, the more I agree with you.

OMFG - zzzzzz
 

1st hand took 17 minutes, and made Doyle grumpy for the rest of the show.

yea i was really annoyed also how it went raise call preflop but it was going raise reraise rereriase before the flop even came out. they were just tellign each other how to play their hands. i serious cant wait untill gold gets felted so daniel or phil lak can come in the game.

Any chance someone wants to give a full breakdown of the hand (or post a link to a downloadable version of the video)?

The internet at the middle of bumfuck nowhere doesn't stream video very well.

I turned it off after a few minutes of that shit. They took what could have been the best hand on the show and turned it into unwatchable tv. Also, Sammy is a bigger sucker than I thought and Jamie continues to get people to do what he wants by talking and telling the truth. It amazes me.

Gold - Most annoying human EVER.

Wow... that's got to be the most annoying hand I've ever seen played.

And Farha is an IDIOT for checking the river when he should be 100% certain his hand is good.

I can't believe Gold's whining just saved him $185k or whatever it was Farha had left in front of him. Wow...

Also, how stupid are these guys for CALLING dark bets/raises? I mean, MAKING the dark bet/raise is one thing, but why not SEE THE FLOP before calling? It's stupid to call dark. Basically you're just doing more preflop betting (that you should have done preflop anyway) and skipping the flop betting round.

Would have only been great if Sammy doubled up. Maybe that would have shut Gold up a bit...probably not.

Worst aspect - some nimrod is going to go to a casino game and try to play the flop dark and then ask the dealer to deal the flop and turn all at once.

Best aspect - Doyle's comment (something like) "If my father knew I was losing money in this poker game he'd jump out of his grave and beat the crap out of me."

I think it would since he wasn't going to rebuy.

that was god awful, and they were wrong, it was bad television. Who ever edits that show could have done a lot better job with that hand. Only two things were redeeming about that hand 1). Doyle getting grumpy. I love grumpy old men. 2). Gabe Kaplan did a pretty good job of trying to talk through that nonsense.

Kids, don't try this at home
 

Last night's episode was great. Let's all learn how to overvalue top pair in huge pots *and* get away with it.

Thought I was watching $25 NL online there for a minute. :D

lol it was like they were playing with fake chips. does anyone think that maybe this show is rigging the decks a little. i mean everytime it seems to come the perfect board for action. like sammy caught his 2 that makes a str flush and case q comes out on turn so sammy and gee can both have a set. lets not forget that mess of the hand were the 2 looses people at the table get aa and kk but hell it makes good t.v for most part.

I really liked last night's show as well. Man PA runs well to take 3 out of 4 against Sammy. Also Gold's fold button must be broke. :donkey

Not for nothin' but I have 2 points.

1. They only show the "interesting hands"

2. I can think of one guy at the table who, if he thought somebody connected with the show was stacking the deck when he had $500,000 of his own money on the table, knows people who would have no problem with (what's the right euphemism here) "taking care of" that producer.

Unless of course we're all the dupes and its a play money game. :eek:

Seems to me that, looking at his eyes and body language the last 2 shows, Jamie Gold doesn't have quite as high opinion about himself as a poker player as he used to.

It seems that he is trying to out donk Sammy. But unlike Sammy, Jamie only calls.

Gold's play has definitely been going down hill during this season. It is not a very big hill granted, but it is getting worse nonetheless. Wanting to be the best bluffer is an admirable goal (I guess:confused:), but when you play and lose that many hands, is it really a +EV tactic?

The more he played, the more bored I became. Thankfully DN took his place. I can't wait untill next week.

I find that Gold just likes to gamble and Farha just loves to encourage him to gamble, forcing Gold to make bad decisions.

DN played like a nit the first few episodes of this season. Someone must be staking him.

Catching up on some of the older episodes from season 4... here's a good line from Ep. 11:

Doyle: Did you take your diabetes medicine?
Barry: Is that one of your pick-up lines?

LOL

So what were everyones thoughts on last nights episode?

I only watched parts of it and need to watch the others in case I missed anything good.

Guy must be staking Benyamine. Also for a guy that shoves 600k in the middle on a flush draw, David looked awful nervous.

This hand is as far as I watched (during halftime of MNF). I think Benyamine knows exactly how light Guy will shove there, so his reaction to Guy flipping over his cards come from realizing that his A outs are not good.

Believing you have 45% equity if called and realizing you only have 32% for that size pot will turn anybody's stomach.

Guy is way too nice. Way too nice. If he had agreed to run it 3 or 4 or 5 times, that would have been nice, but just letting David off the hook like that (for what? $48k?) with 1.2 million in the middle is crazy...

I know he's super rich and all, but if this money is too big for these guys to lose, they shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

I think it's clear the money is too big, as Doyle said, especially with the overall skill level of the players. It's one thing if it's 3 big pro's and 5 or 6 whales, but that's not what this is.

I think people forget that the big game is primarily limit, and when they do rotate in a PL or NL game, the pots are capped at something like $250K.

Doyle said that the only guy who is adequately rolled for the game is Guy.

Meh
 

The rest of the show was sort of boring. best part of the broadcast was Katja's 'Stars commercial. :thumbsup:

I thought the Doyle's Room commercial with Pamela Anderson was amusing.

What a letdown that 1.2m pot hand was. Next time play it out guys.

Yeah, Doyle's was great, too. "Nice pair"

And forget playing the big pots straight. gabe has it right. These guys are going to deal every time that moch cash goes in. Maybe not like Guy did, but they'll always run it multiple times.